Dance.......

[phat9]

I know it's frustrating looking at the phenomial success of 4-5 guys lately who have put in much less effort than you or I. I can hear your angst 1,000 mile away.

Congrats to those like Kodill (unbelievable 2 inch in 4 months), 7-U), UIStrike (hey I spelled it right didn't I?), and BigBob10, to name just a few "super fast" gainers.

A word of caution to this "select" group. I have followed the progress in yoru posts and am amazed that you gain so fast with such little effort, "relatively" speaking.

Please don't get me wrong, but there is a tendency among the super super duper fast gainers to "generalize" things which for the vast majority are NOT true at all. I will not give specific examples but the past few weeks I have seen reference after reference to "this" or "that" method or twist of an existing method that is the "magic bullet". The truth is that you guys are genetically programmed to gain NO MATTER WHAT method you choose. That's great, and congrats. Enjoy it, treasure it, but please be cognizant that you are in the upper 99th percentile of PEers, who do NOT and will NOT respond like you do,, so lets us be respectful of the 99 percent who will not see such success, but must wait and owrim,d much harder.

There are some on this board who are heartbroken and literally crushed when the see such gains adverstised as "gee, it's easy, anyone can do this if only they......."

It would be nice if it were that simple.

Again, I'm just trying to put an edge on this discussion and keep it realistic.

[UIShrike]

Hi Phat8!

I couldn't agree more with you on this post, and I've been saying something like that frequently: everyone is different, and what works for one, might not work for other. But I think you probably were refering to me (and others, of course) when you said "Please don't get me wrong, but there is a tendency among the super super duper fast gainers to "generalize" things which for the vast majority are NOT true at all. I will not give specific examples but the past few weeks I have seen reference after reference to "this" or "that" method or twist of an existing method that is the "magic bullet". The truth is that you guys are genetically programmed to gain NO MATTER WHAT method you choose."

Ok, when I give advice to anyone that asks for it, I allways make sure that I state clearly that what I advise has worked FOR ME! When I say that Intensity is one of the most importan issues in Penile Development, I speak relating to me (and others from other boards) because I've been in the two sides of the issue. Previously, when I followed this board's excelent advice, I had good gains, don't get me wrong. But I gained the same that I gained after getting on Big Al's site (wich focus on intensity, at least the way I apply it), and now I only spent 1/3 of the time working out! That's why I say that FOR ME, intensity was the turning point. Have I been saying that anyone who follows the principles that I've advised here and there will get better gains than they're getting now? I don't think so, but if I did, I was misunderstood. I believe that almost anyone can make good gains, they just have to find a program that suits them, and not anyone else. That's why I say that when a guy is stuck on a plateau, for several months, then he should try changing things, and maybe give the intensity side a test. I advise people to experiment, not to follow blindly anything I say.

I just wanted to clarify my point of view, because it seemed that you were refering to me above.

Also phat, I don't thing that I'm that great gainer, because if I was, I would have gained the triple of what I gained when working out 1h30m. And this didn't happen... I'm having the gains that I'm having because I've found a system that works for me. I experimented, and saw that the way I'm working out now is the best for me. That's what I advise anyone: experiment, and see what's best for you!

Hope I've clarified things!

PEace,

UIShrike

Sorry guys. I agree with what you are saying. Guess you may be making reference to me, among others. Just caught up in the excitement of the moment and unintentionally became a bit indiscrete in the way things have been shared. My heart was right about things even if my head was wrong in the presentation of things. I do believe that innovsation leads to a perfecting of techniques and I think it is important that we share what we have learned. And I do believe that genetics and age are all factors. You may recall that I said that my gains were probably due to my age (54). The collagen that composes my ligs and fascia have broken down with time and thus easier to elongate than on someone younger and healthier. I would gladly trade my weakened, aged collagen for your stronger, younger equipment. But I hope that we can still share, summarize, innovate, and help each other with our mutual goals. Once again, sorry about any misunderstandings or any unintentioal discomfort that may have come through. (7)

[Dance]

Phat,
Well to be honest with you I did not pay attention to the fast gains made by people. Like I told you months ago, when I see reports of gains I just flat out ignore them. When I read a post and see numbers and a report of gains I just don't pay attention. After a solid year of PE, and yes trying everything that came down the pike, and getting zero gains I just can't read about other's gains. It is too depressing and to be honest I have my doubts. I can only see results on me and that is the sole purpose for my PE. Basically everyone is gaining but me, and I am working harder or as hard as anyone.

I understand UIShrike and 7UP when they say we need to share ideas and try new things. We also should not be afraid to change our routines when we have lack of results. Over that past year I have tried basically everything on the board and PE sites that I have read. I agree with the philosophy of experimentation and innovation as well as changing routines etc. Having said that, UIShrike, (nothing personal) but you did say "I believe that almost anyone can make good gains, they just have to find a program that suits them." Now don't get upset here, but that still has a tone that there is some easy magic panacea that will work for anyone if they can just find it. Now as I say I do believe we need to try new things and change etc, but Phat's point is that some people are fast gainers and others are slow gainers. In other words, there is more to the picture than the actual routine, and for some of us, it is just not that easy no matter what we try.

Phat,
by the way I am still busting my ass on the hanging. In every way I am increasing, weight, sets and days.
Dance

[phat9]

that's not correct either (the collagen thing). I'm 50. Now, I have a modest gain and I'm big anyway, always have been, though pics prove I had lost quite a bit with age. I gained that back fast, most anyway, but it's tough after that for me. I've logged over 700 fucking hard, intense, relententless hours, and if your theory were true, I'm sure I'd be past 11 inches right now, easily, and 9 around.

There is no generalization as to body tissue and age. We are trying to uncover "general" principles. There are always exceptions and I don't blame you in the least for getting exuberant about it and wanting to shout it to the world.......I said congrats and I meant it. The tissue - age link is obviously true for you, not me and many others. It's not a general principle. Also, when I unflold MY foreskin, I LOSE, not gain!!!!!!!! These are not general principles, they vary by man. I will continue to work my ass off because it's good for health reasons and I hope to gain another half inch with another 500 hours of INTENSE hanging and some Ulis. That would put me in the 99.9th percentile and I'll be happy. That will happen for me, but not with a few hours a week of INTENSE jelq and Ulis, or heavy hanging for that matter. It's in the genes. It will take hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours of relentless work. That's my hope, understand? Big Al's program, hang all day, bring it all on, and I still gain at below .001 per hour, and that's all there is to it. No big deal, but no magic bullet or age - collagen link either.

I will say that it does appear that Big Al's program is the best. Hear that BA? I'm endorsing 'ya.

I'm just saying let's avoid saying "I did it, anyone can do it." That gives false hope to the average to slower gainers among us, the VAST majority, many of whom will have some limited success if they just persevere past the one year mark, and don't give up. We don't want to discourage them, and the board is FULL of them. Many just read and never post.

The evidence is plain (hell, just ask Big Al "off" record): there are a very small minority who will, no matter the effort or technique or intensity or "V Stretch" or whatever thingamaggiger, gain little or none. Now, that is a miniscule percent, mind you, which proves the point that PE works. It just doesn't work 100%, and very few get gains like you have had. When they do, they are often "advertised" as a success by such and such a program, and in reality they would be. They are not representative.

Now, with all that said, go ahead and continue to update us of your progress. I love reading it. Just don't go out on a limb and claim the "promised land" hath been found. It is a search still, ongoing and fraught with incongruities all along the way.

Phat,

You're right. The only way some of us are going to have anything to show for all of this will be minimal gains but a healthy, strong cock. I just passed the 1 year mark and gained, maybe, .25" in length and about .75" in girth. Most of the girth came after I was ready to throw in the towel and bought Big Al's program. That intensity stuff is working for me. I have come to peace with an issue in the last couple of days with myself...I may never get the length I want so FUCK IT, I'll be like one of those morons in the gym who have big legs and a small upper body. They go in and work out their legs ignoring their obvious weakness. So if I'm gaining girth, let's go with it and work for girth. Meanwhile, I'll continue to hang for an hour per night and who knows, maybe next year this time, I'll have gained some in length.

TC

[UIShrike]

Hi Dance!

>Having said that, UIShrike, (nothing personal) but you did say "I believe that
>almost anyone can make good gains, they just have to find a program that suits
>them." Now don't get upset here, but that still has a tone that there is some
>easy magic panacea that will work for anyone if they can just find it.

Dance, I don't get upset that easily :) Don't worry man, you and anyone else can argue with my points of view, we just need to keep an helthy conversation, and that's what's happening here, so no problem :)
Now as for your remark, first I must say that English is not my native language. I'm latin (I'm on the other side of the Atlantic), so anyone who knows latin languages knows that they differ very much from the english language. Having said that, I may sometimes wish to say something, and it sounds differently when translated to english. But that didn't happen on the above sentence. Don't get me wrong or anything, but I believe that if you gain .1" per year, that's good gains! Would you still wish to be, for example, 7" inches all the rest of your life, or make gains of .1" per year, and reach your goal in ten years? I believe that any gain is good gain! That's why I said the above sentence that you quoted. And I said almost anyone, because like Phat said, I too belive that there is a small percentage of guys who will never gain anything, no matter what they do. But you shouldn't give up. Have you tried ANY possible method out there? You certanly haven't because taking the example of 7UP, he came here with an exercise that has been very effective for him, and that's the beauty of this board. We can all brainstorm ideas, and come up with new exercises, that may help guys that were otherwise stuck. Just hang in there man (no pun intended) and I'm sure you'll get gains. Haven't you gained anything at all since you started?

PEace,

UIShrike

Hey Phat8 :-(

Sorry to hear you have noticed No gains! The one thing you will NEVER HEAR from PE retailers is that the ONE factor that determines if ANY Gain will be seen is the Physiology of the Penis . If they told you this then they would not Sale as Much of their product man . I know it is rather unfair But Some Cocks will enlarge with effort and Others I have heard have noticed No REAL gains . I can only say Best of luck to you , Also I believe The HUMAN mind can cause anything to happen in its Omnipotence . You have to KNOW not think But KNOW that you can have a Bigger Dick and then of course do the PE course of your choice . But the Human Will is everything . Physically speaking the most important factor is the Physical design of your cock / If I were you I would Not be deterred from the GREAT GAINS Success stories you hear BUT INSPIRED ! Hope this helps ya . Btw you sound HUNG already, Good to Know another dude with Plenty already and wanting more <g>

Peace and KEEP GROWING

Horse

[phat9]

No, no, no, no, you misunderstood me. I DO have gains, just not a lot per "hours" of effort expended. See my post on that in an earlier string, where I categorized "slow to no", "slow",
"medium", "fast" and "super fast." It was based on data from this board.

I am not sure "how much" exactly I have gained for several frustrating reasons.

I know at the minimum I have gained at least 5/8s of an inch, but it could be as much as a whole inch, compared to where I was January 2000, when I began. I have measured 9 1/4 HARD bone pressed, but I'm just now not sure how hard I pressed in Jan 2000. I don't trust my own measurements, and I have bad "ruler anxiety." I have probably gained a bit more than 5/8 of an inch. I have some more girth at the base, where I'm thick anyway, but the midshaft has had zero gains. So there I have gained nothing. NO one on this board Ulied with more intense pressure than I did for 6 months, 12 to 20 hours per week! I did it so intensely that I was sore and swollen much more than any heaving hanging of weights.

I had lost some size during my 40s. I started around the "true" 8 inch mark.

I can hang 8 flaccid at times. So, I'm very secure, but I would like to be a "true" 9 incer,and and I'll keep on. I work closely with Bib. I had a lot of input to his device. I don't give a shit if I gain any more or not. I do, however, want to discover why it is that some guys gain so much with such little effort and others don't.

Peace

Phat, you said:

"The evidence is plain (hell, just ask Big Al "off" record): there are a very small minority who will, no matter the effort or technique or intensity or "V Stretch" or whatever thingamaggiger, gain little or none. Now, that is a miniscule percent, mind you, which proves the point that PE works."

At the risk of introducing a somber note here, I just have to say that I know of absolutely no evidence to support the suggestion that the vast majority of men will achieve gains from PE, and that those who will not only constitute a "miniscule percent". The people who participate here are for the most part those who've had success, or at least claim they did, or those who are still trying, or even those who make their living from promoting the idea. Those who tried it with no success have long since left, or, like me, just lurk from time to time.

So what you have in this forum is not a random or unbiased sample by any means. My own opinion, which I can't prove, is that MOST men won't achieve any material gains from PE, no matter what they do or how long they do it, but that SOME men (far less than half) will achieve some gains from almost any routine. And, having been around the internet for a some time, I also think that claims of really big gains are just silly (no offense to any of you 4" gainers out there, but without some evidence, I just don't buy it.)

There is never going to be an independent scientific study of PE, so we will never know what the odds really are, but there are enough non-gainers, like Dance and me, who will admit to being that, that newcomers here should at least consider the significant possibility that PE may not work for them.

I have never seen convincing photographic evidence of a material increase in ERECT length. Not once. And it just seems to me that if PE worked for all but a "miniscule percentage" of men, I would have seen lots.

I do not make it a habit to rant like this, because I know from experience that you need encouragement and support to get through whatever trial period you want to undertake, and that negativity doesn't help that. But it does seem to me that the tone of things here recently, supported by those who may have a financial interest it in, has become completely one-sided with respect to the actual odds of success, and I think prospective PEers need to keep in touch with reality. Which is: there's no way to know in advance whether this will work for you, and it's going to take about 6 months of your life to find out. In my view, reality also includes the idea that the odds are not in your favor.

[phat9]

Wow Pea, you sound pretty pessimistic. I would assume you have not had much success.

There are some numbers I've gotten from PE "for pay" services and from must computing a percent of "some gain" on this board. Somewhere between 94% and 98% will have some gains. That leaves a non-success rate (what you termed 50%) to be between 6% and only 2%.

Now, not only are the numbers very small for "no gains", some of the guys in the "no gins" category gave up and quit around the six month mark. So, I'd assume that if the really slow gainers kept at it, that the non-success rate would be lower.

I hope that helps. Where does one "cut it off" to be labelled as no gainer? 6 months, 8 months, a year, 2 years.

I did see some guy who claimed he had been in the PE lifestyle for 5 years and had "no" gains, but he claimed he was PEing on. I have not seem him around in months.

Most everyone will gain at least a quarter or half inch (which admittedly is not much) if they put in enough effort and do not give up. But the pain and frustration threshold tends to set in around the 6-12 month mark, before many give up.

You are correct, in that these numbers are based on what guys "report" but I find no one likes to lie to themselves on this board. I trust the numbers, gains at least, pretty well.

[UIShrike]

Hi!

I have to agree fully with Phat here! On this board, and you Peabody are one of the veterans around here (I remember you posting in the board when Sciman managed it), there are various genders, growth rates and all bunch of stuff. We're all different (I know, I'm just making Duh comments, but bare with me), and some guys have better growth than others: some grow inches in months (look at 7UP), some grow fractions of an inch in years. This all boils down to genetics, effort, etc, etc. There are too many variables to be taken into account when measuring real success with PE. When I first started on this board (last months of Sciman runing it) I read the success of other guys, and I couldn't believe that my penis would grow with just some manual exercises! And when I heard the gains of Bib, JAPP and others, well, I became very pessimist. But then, and this was the turning point for me, I said to myself "I'm not making this effort to brag about myself to others, or to go and show my dick in public for everyone to see. I'm doing this for myself, and to help my self-esteem" (or other words to that effect). I couldn't care less if I only gained 1/8th of an inch per year, as long as there were gains in the long run...
I think I was lucky to get the variables right on my first months, so even working out the triple I'm doing now, I gained because... well, I don't know why, or else I would be making big bucks right now ;) You can call it genetics, intensity, luck whatever... But I made gains, and all of the people that post here on this board has made gains, ones faster than others, but gains were made no matter what. I asked Dance if he hasn't gained anything since starting PE, but no answer yet, so I have to see a post from a guy out here who hasn't made gains in years, not even 1/16th of an inch. You say that the ones that don't make gains leave this board. Well, if you give up that fast (and I know cases of guys who gave up on PE, after buying almost every program out there, because they wanted great gains, in few months) then that's you to blame for no gains (and I'm saying you in general, not you youself Peabody).
I'm also, and sorry for venting here, but I'm also getting a little tired of some people arround here being "paranoid" seeing "program sellers" disguised everywhere. This has happened to me, especially when I first started on the new program I'm now on, and being the motivating guy I am, posted my good results here. Last thing I know, there was even one guy saying that I and Big Al were the same person, with same IP address and other bullshit. I consider Big Al a friend of mine, but without counting some conversations through e-mail, we never even met in person (although a meeting is arranged when I go to the USA for vacation), and we live an entire ocean apart. I know that here on the Net we have to be suspicious of may things, but this kind of paranoia sometimes pisses me off. I've put tremendous effort on this, like almost everyone here, and I hate to see my gains discredit by remarks like that.
Oh, and Peabody, I wasn't refering to you specifically on the above paragraph, it's just some sh*t I had to put out here, because sure we might be suspicious of the gains of some people here, but even if the guy is lying, how does it affect us? The only thing it can do is motivate, nothing less... Don't look at the finger when it's pointing to the moon...
Let's just trust a little more, and keep faith that things workout, specially if you put your mind to it. I'm a fan of NLP, hypnosis, and stuff like that. Has this helped me making the gains I've made? I doubt, because I'm really green on this (only 2-3 months), but it gave me a willpower that I've never had before. Things WILL happen if you put your MIND to it!

Ok, sorry about this venting, and if this sounded like preaching I'm sorry, but I've meant to say this for a long time, and now it seemed a good time...

PEace,

UIShrike

[Dance]

UIshrike,
I started at 6 (non bone pressed) by 4.75. That was around the end of February last year. At this time I am still 6 (non bone pressed) by around 4.75-4.875. Girth is a funny thing for me. If I am not fully hard it is bigger than when rock hard. But at the most I gained 1/8 inch girth. Now I am still confused about the bone pressed measurement. I used to always measure non bone pressed first and then press the bone. I remember it being 6.5 After a while now I am 6.75. However, I still think that maybe I was always 6.75 but when I measured bone pressed I might not have been fully rock hard. I don't know about you guys but I have to manually jerk my penis and flex my pc and then pow I am fully hard and grab the ruler right away and measure or I lose it. (I think that may be one reason self measurements are higher than when others measure). Anyway, I may, I repeat may, have gained 1/4 inch bone pressed but really I am not sure about it. At any rate my non bone pressed measurement is still right on 6 and that is the one I care about. After an all day hanging session, and then jelqing and pumping and when I am on Viagra and rock hard I can sometime see a tiny tiny bit over 6 like maybe 6.125 or so, but it always goes down to 6 later. Don't want to speak for others but I believe Elvis battery also is a no gainer after a ton of long term PE as well. WX has pretty minimum gains as well if I am not mistaken. There are guys that have given it the old college try and got nothing there is no doubt about it.
Dance

PE is like anything else in life. I have been exercising for the past month in an effort to lose weight and get healthy. I have made some progress but less than what I would have expected. I think it all comes down to your desire, if you really want something you will keep on, until you get it, or until you decide that it is not feasible. I don't know if it is possible to get back into the shape that I used to be in, but I do know that if it is the only way to find out is to try. I have not had much success in PE, partly because of time constraints, my lack of energy level in the past 3 to 6 months, etc, etc, problems in my marriage, but it's somewhat all coming around. And you know what? Life goes on, yes life goes on, I must try again, I will go to the gym today and jog, and hopefully I will jelq too, maybe I will skip the hotwrap, or maybe I will not, I will also try to clean the toilet, and do some dishes. Now, at this point any of you may be asking, what in the hell is this guy ranting about? My point is that we must try if only for the sake of knowing that we did something as opposed to sitting and wandering what could have been. Think about it some people don't even have the chance to PE because they lack the vitality or energy, but you and me and all the guys here have the chance, so let's try, so what if we don't succeed, at least we will be at peace with ourselves knowing that we tried.

[vivace]

Hey all. I started Jan 23, 2000--almost 14months. Stretch,jelk and Uli. I think I did not take the requisite rest periods. I had some gain initially. Started out Like Dance a 6EL and 4.75G. I gained about 3/4 length and .25 girth. I agree with Peabody, I do not believe the gains I have read relative to girth-- Going from 5 to a 6 inch girth in 4 months is bloated fantacy. I believe I have tough tendons which resist sustained growth and tend to rebuild stronger--not necessarily much longer. I am shooting for the long term and will get my 7.5 length and 5.5 girth before I slow down--by this summer. I am 45 (but honestly look 30) and due to a weight lifting and exercize program begun at the same time. I look and feel better than I ever did. My friends are silent, but treat me with lots of smiles and almost awe--strange feeling. Everyone keeps asking me how old I am. That is what the total PE package did for me My erections are more filled out and feel thicker. My flacid can be unpredictably frightening some days--both ways. I am now consciously cutting down on PE time and being much more intense in the AM and PM. With a rest day per week. Hornier than ever--My wife is scared off , probably should tell, but I know she would make fun of me or PE. For no real good reason and little gains, I am sremain committed and hopeful for an over night growth spurt--I am in denial but tenatious.

That is one of the best posts I've read Mig.

We are a very priveleged minority. We know how to PE and we know that for some of us it might work. We have the ability to ultimately change our lives drastically. And despite PE giving me negligable gains so far, and for many others on this board, at least in continuing it I am safe in the knowledge that I haven't wasted perhaps the best opportunity I have ever been offered.

[Nortical]

This thread had become too discouraging, lets shed some more light on it...

First of all, don't say that some people could never gain anything.
Ok, maybe some people will never gain from regular PE, no matter what exercise or heavy hanging.
Then we need to find out why, and what we can do about it, rather than just say that it can't be done.
PE hasn't been around for very long and we have only found the top of the iceberg.

Let's say someone doesn't gain anything ever from heavy hanging all day.
Then the problem must be that his ligaments are too damn strong.
So, what we need to do is soften his ligs and make them weaker.
How do we do this?
That is something we really need to know, and I really think we should follow up HardNSoul's old thread about collagen and collagenase. He also wanted to start some kind of research team. Whatever happened to that brilliant idea?

With this huge board and everybody reading it we can come up with many new ideas together.
Every guy in here has a great interest in PE, so let's do our best to develope it.

What I'm trying to say is that nothing is impossible.
Like I wrote in another thread, if we can fly to the moon and clone animals, what is the big deal about stretching a dick ???
What we need is more research!

Norti

Well, you guys were easier on me than I expected. I guess I'll go take off my helmet. Well, maybe I'll keep it on for a while longer.

As far as success rates are concerned, I'll just say that you can't accept numbers you get from pay sites. They may be accurate, but they may also be completely made up, and you have no way to know which it is. Also, there's no way you can claim that 9x% of the people on this board have significant gains - I go back a ways here, and while I haven't kept strict count, I think there have been lots of guys who didn't do any good. And that doesn't count the ones who give it a fair try but just give up and go away without saying anything.

As for what constitutes a fair trial, in my case I did PE (hanging heavy weights) for about 8.5 months, and I figured that was enough. Of course if you think 1/8 inch per year constitutes success, then I think we should make that clear to everyone, rather than throwing up the 2-inches-in-12-weeks idea as a reasonable goal. For me, 1/8 inch per year isn't worth it.

Well look guys, Tom Hubbard got 1.25 inches in 4 months of hanging. Doing the same routine for the same time, I got what I thought was 0.25 inch, but even that turned out to be measuring exhuberance. So I really got nothing. And the problem is that absolutely nobody knows why it worked for him and not for me.

There's no point in beating a dead horse. I just don't think it's productive to have an unrealistic opinion of your chances, and I still think if there was a method of PE that reliably produced gains, we would all know about it by now, as would every high school kid in North America. It's just not right to say that if you work hard enough, or do the right routine, you'll get gains. I DO believe that Tom Hubbard got his gains, but I think it is a long, long way from a sure thing.

And, UIShrike, I didn't accuse you of being Big Al in disguise, but it's an interesting suggestion.

[UIShrike]

Hi Dance!

My measurements too fluctuate a little, that's why I measure on two days, 3 measurements per day, doing the average, and posting it here, because sometimes the day hasn't been so good, an the "big guy" is not feeling so good... I've had fluctuations of 1/4 of an inch in measuremnts in two different days...

As for your gains, I would really like to help you. No problems, no strings attached, nothing, just help... if you'd post your routine (current, and anything you tried) I'd love to help... maybe give specific directions... if you're interested, and I'm not saying that you'll make gains with my sugestions, but if you want, mail me in private, so we can discuss this a little further, OK?

PEace,

UIShrike

[UIShrike]

Peabody, let me tell you something: if you think 1/8 of an inch in one year is not worth it, then like I said, you have the wrong mentality! I'm not saying this because I have made good gains (above the average on this board), but because to me, even if I had gains of only 1/8th of an inch per year, that would make 1 inch in 8 years! And since I'm young (21) by the age of 29 I would have a cock 1 inch bigger! Who wouldn't want that? You can think short term... miracles don't happen... it's you who make it happen or not. If you really BELIEVE this will work, it will. If you THINK this will work, it maybe won't. If you HOPE this will work, worse yet. Just ask any guy out there, who doesn't know PE, if he knew that with some manual exercises he could increase his size by 1 inch in 8 years, what would he say? Think about it... Prespective is everything, you have to think long run... I have (luck, genetics, whatever) to have found a program that suits me well... It's your resposibility and your only to found one that works for YOU and no one else. Experiment... there are a lot of exercises that no one remembered and some new guys are posting here... try something different for a few months, if what you're doing isn't working currently... and KNOW that it will work!

As for your last comment, you and anyone else that thinks that can believe it. I don't mind it, I'm making great gains, and you people are losing your time finding conspiracies everywhere... worry about that, and I'll keep worrying about my gains, and will keep progressing until I reach my all time goal, wich with the growth rate I'm now having, should be arround mid next year.

PEace,

UIShrike

Well said UIShrike

Phat8,

Sorry dude , My Bad . Good to know you have had Gains . WOW 9.25" ? that Is damn Hung bro . and no doubt if you continue you will See and Exceed that Goal .
A few things I don't understand , can you help ?
NO one on this board Ulied with more intense pressure than I did for 6 months............ what is Ulied ?
also ..........I work closely with Bib. I had a lot of input to his device ? What is bib ? Have heard it mentioned but not sure about what it is . You go Boi , I Usually hang at 6-7 Flaccid not too often 8 . I think the main reason for the difference in Gains is due to the Physiology of the Cock .

Peace
Keep Growing

Horse

[Dance]

UIShrike,
As for the measuring there is nothing for me to average. I am always 6. Yes I do find that girth is a strange phenomenon and varies a tiny big. That is why I give a range. I do something that many here say is wrong, I measure all the time. I know everyone says it is depressing to see no results etc and we should not measure for a while and then measure. However, there are times I happen to be rock hard (early in the morning for instance) so I measure. Every time I come to exactly 6. I never fluctuate.

As for my routine history, it could save some time to just mention my post in the personal routines section. I have tried to keep a history of my routines there. Of course it does not mention everything but is a pretty good idea. What have I tried? Yeah pretty much most of the ideas that came on the board. All the methods of manual stretching and creative jelqing and ulies. To be fair, a person really needs to get a routine and stick with it for little while in order to determine if it will work. Some of the exercises I tried and just did not like or get the desired feeling or results. The two that I am currently going to try is the V-stretches and the fow. The only thing is that if I have the time to do PE I am concentrating on hanging. I tried manually stretching the shit out of it for long periods etc (see the post) and also jelqing all different routines etc (vary rest days, time, intensity) and ulies.

My current routine is something like this. Sunday-Friday I hang as much as physically possible. This tends to be about 6 sets now. The only reason I don't do more is because of marks and bruises from clamping down on the hanger. Between hangs I do hot wraps and jelq for a few minutes and one set of 20 ulies. On Sunday, Tues, and Thursday, after the hanging I jelq for a while (20 minutes or so and do ulies etc pretty intensely and then follow up with 2-3 sets of pumping. Between sets and afterwards I also do hot wraps and jelqing and ulies. When I wake up I do a hot wrap, a small amount of manual stretching (several variations), light jelq, Uli and hot wrap.

So there you go. I can see some people thinking it is not enough rest etc. I have tried all types of rest days etc. I believe that jelqing and pumping requires more rest than hanging. I am also not anal about sticking to the routing. If I really beat the hell out of it and my weight in the hanging session falls to half of my max then maybe I take a day off.

In order to judge results I am going to stick with this routine. I tried many things for girth which did not work, so I am now trying for length. Having said that, if you want to correspond through e-mail sure. I am always willing to listen to people and other ideas. I will write you if you like. I just thought for the benefit of others I would post my routine here.

OK there you go,
Dance

[Dance]

I tried the email but it would not work.

Hey guys an apology first. Any of my few posts were not meant to dishearten anybody or were intended to be boastful. If that came across, then sorry for that. As I said sometime ago when I actually first put something on the board I was simply amazed and still am at the results of a simple PE regime on me. I merely wished to acknowledge the advice and methods others had posted and which I tried at various times before sticking with what I felt comfortable with. I can't explain my progress other than in terms of what I did. Whether that is a general method or not I'm not sure but it seems to be the stock standard approach.

I do not know what the science behind the PE process is but I would suspect that genes, vascular development general physical well being and mental attitude all play a part, in which measure who knows?

I understand others frustration and not getting any or marginal results for a lot of effort. As a younger man I always wanted a bigger more physical body but despite playing football, working out etc., nothing ever really changed, I would build some muscle but no realy bulk, I can tell you at one stage I ate a lot of bananas and drank a lot of milkshakes in the hope I would get fatter, nope no way. I gave up and went down the Kung Fu road as I liked the mind over matter approach, the lack of aggression or confrontation of the art and the gymnastic based type of physical exercise. I still did not develop big muscles but just became tighter and fitter. Second for some reason my genes keep me thin, who knows why, my brother is the opposite.

Anyway I am sure you will hit upon the right combination some time. Good luck.