Speed Seduction for Wives

[J Meister]

I've seen the "Dating Insider" ads and links to various "Speed Seduction" sites. These techniques appear to rely on the power of sestion and other mind games. This might work great for you single guys and philanderers; however, those of us who are married/monogamous have no need to "pick up" the girl, we only want to "score" more often. What I'm looking for is some techniques to get the ol' wife in the mood for action, more often. These days, this seems nearly impossible with the demands of two professional careers, kids, etc. Anybody have any ideas on how to do this without resorting to drugs and alcohol? Can these techniques be adapted to married/committed relationships?

J Meister

[soyelmocano]

Can't really help you, but if you find anything, be sure to post it. A lot of us might be able to use some help.

I usually just wave my American Express card in front of my wife's face. Works every time!

Jim

[SS4Jelq]

SS by Ross Jeffries has a lot about persuasion and manipulation. Once you learn about how to talk and what to say you can modify the 'patterns' as they are called into your own personal situation. There are several patterns used to get the girl in the mood, and the idea is as you get better you will be able to make them up on the fly.

I wouldnt pay for anything though. If you look hard enough you will find stuff for free on the net.

Go to www.pickupguide.com
go right to the bottom and there is links to free sites of interest. Then click on 'tonys layguide free version' or something like that and download it to your hard drive if you can.
A Speed Seduction book is also availabe for free near to the layguide link.
Good luck
SS4

[J Meister]

SS4Jelq:

Thanks for the link. I read through a fair amount of the material. I still think its a challenge to apply these techniques to an established marriage relationship without sending the wife's bullshit meter over the redline!
Having said that, some of the techniques using physical touch seem quite promising. Also, the techniques where you take her mind to another place could be useful in removing stress and preoccupation with the cares of daily life. I think it will take some practice and work to develop patterns that work in a marriage situation, since the interest is more long-term than short-term and a wife knows you so well (i.e. hard to fool the bullshit detector, especially after 15 years of marriage).

Anyone else tried applying these techniques in their marriage? I'd love to hear examples/stories/results.

[vivace]

Hey Meister,

I am on 2 years of trying to get my wife back in the saddle. I am seriously thinking of leaving her (I am past anger I think) The work I did to push our sex life into more than once every two months (maybe) put her in a very negative state which translated into no sex. Lots of mental anquish and total frustration on my part. PE has been great, but it stimulated my libido to the point of practically begging. Well. now there is the male ego and dignity thing all enflamed. Currently sleeping seperately and barely talking. She is unresponsive, uncommunicative, and yet all cheery in the morning . Menapause??? 20 years of marriage and we both are youthful. I have read about 30 books on the subject of relations and marriage and I seem to be the "female" in this situation in my need to be intimate. However, I bet I am not alone. Men ussually do not admit the above. Sorry I dumped.

[Bib]

vivace,

The hormone thing could be a big factor. A lot of stuff changes during this period. But did you ever see the posts a long time ago with Sean Jacobs about cutting her off? Many times, this is just a power thing.

Be really nice in all things except ignore her completely about sex. Give her back rubs, take her out, do other stuff for her. But no sex. Work on your PE during this time. Take care of yourself. Forget about sex with her.

After a while, she will drop hints, maybe make some advances. This is a trick. Ignore all of it because she just wants you back on the hook. Continue on, being very nice. After you have rebuffed her a few times, she will probably want to 'talk' about it. Tell her you understand what she is going through and don't want her to do anything she does not want to do. Even tell her you can take care of yourself. Not a problem.

Soon, she will really want to have sex. She will talk you into it. This is also a ploy. Make it kind of hard but give in. Then, forget about sex again. She will drop hints etc., but the more you hold out, the more you will get later.

I NEVER ask for sex anymore. Ever. It simply comes to me like clockwork, four or five times per week. Of course, the added equipment does not hurt either.

Bigger

[SS4Jelq]

bib/vivace

Thats an interesting idea, I may try that with my girlfriend. I feel in a similar way to you, vivace, although she is not my wife, and we have been seeing each other for less than a year. We spend lots of time together and she stays over at my place often. At first she was very horny but has lost it almost completely now. We have never had sex, but im talking about the other stuff. That annoys me too, she had one night stands and threesomes and shit like that but wont have sex with me even though she claims to like me a lot.

It might not sound like much but we get into bed and she rolls over and ignores me many things go though my head, like I think she doesent like me in that way, or im just so bad at it she doesent want to (+ the size thing of course). I know sex isnt everything but I want us to have a good sex life, I hear my friends talk about how horny their girls are and im thinking is she even alive.

Im sorry if that makes no sense I was just blurting really. Thanks for reading.

SS4

[Hugeness]

hey Bigger, if I recall correctly, Sean got divorced, so I don't know if his plan is a good one. I tried it before, but didn't have the ability to hold out if sex was offerred... LOL! Once a horn dog, always a horn dog.

SS4, sorry to say, but you need a new girl. Have one of your friends hook you up with their girlfriend's friend. If your girl is not interested in sex now, the case is lost. Move on!!!

[Bib]

Huge,

You are right, Sean got divorced. But he had a lot of other problems besides the sex. The ignore thing was what I recommended to him to try for more sex, and he said it worked to an extent.

It is one of those things in life that take a lot of self control. I messed up a couple times and just gave in. But, after a while I was able to control it to the point where eventually, I was almost raped. Great!

Women have urges just like guys. Maybe not as often. But just as for guys, withholding something makes her want it more. All kinds of thoughts go through her mind. Is she no longer attractive? Has she screwed up and driven you off sex completely? Even, are you getting some on the side? Why can't she make you beg anymore?

You want sex? Be a challenge.

Bigger

[Hugeness]

Bigger,

I hear you man... and after I beg for it one more time tonight, I am going to try what you said. LOL!

We shall see... let the games begin!

[J Meister]

Great responses, guys. Hugeness and Vivace, I hear you big time. I feel like I'm always initiating things. Having a constantly-ready, PE-enhanced and stimulated dick does not help matters for me. Last weekend, my wife got mad at me and purposely withheld what she said would have been "great sex" just to punish me. Pissed me off royally. I'm still angry about it. She seems to have a lot of stress in her life these days--work, just turned 40, etc., etc. I'm lucky to get half-hearted sex once a month. It's been months since we had really great sex where she was ripping off orgasm after orgasm. I just don't understand.

BIB, I may try your strategy. However, once she is in the mood, I hate to piss away the opportunity by acting disinterested for fear that I won't be given another chance. (Yes, I am desperate.) I think that "Phallic Superiority" definitely helps you in your situation. Many women seem to love to submit to and worship huge cocks.

[Bib]

JM,

I will not deny that sex is much much better with the larger equipment. And it increased in enjoyment and numbers as it got bigger.

But I started the ignoring sex thing before PE. Eight to ten years ago. I was at the once or twice a month stage also. A shrink friend of mine sested trying it. It is really hard to do at first. Then, it kind of becomes a challenge. It only took a month or two in my situation (maybe less). But that is the only one I know about. It may take longer for you or may not work.

The key is to be extremely nice in all other things. Coffee in bed, backrubs, all the honeydos done. Just conciously ignore anything sexual. It really drives them crazy. They will want to @#%$ you just to see whats up. When you decline, they cannot stand it. Then you become a challenge to them. It's great. Then after you finally relent once, this is hard, go back to the ignoring thing.

Bigger

[HughJorgan9]

Listen to Bib...women are mental, especially when you're marries to them...there is a tape set I bought a long time ago called "light her fire" by Ellen Kreidman, where she explains the differences between the sexes...women need to be turned on mentally, men physically...turn her on mentally, and you have all the sex you can handle...


HJ

[Growing]

Guys,

Bib's right on this one, I've had a live in girlfriend for about 3 years now. About 4 months ago she shut me down, and I had to resort to the ignore sex routine for awhile. Done it with her before and it works like a charm.

I get questions and hints all the time.

"Is there something wrong?"

"It's been over a month you know..."

"The kids won't be home on Saturday so...." (other stuff just happened to keep me too busy on Saturday)

Now she just recently bought herself a membership to the gym and decided to get me one too. As soon as she works out for a few days I'll give it up. That will keep her working out...life is so fun sometimes.

The hardest thing was to shut her down for the first month that I tried it, 'cause I was dieing for sex too. Worked then and it's working now, just need some discipline.

Growing

[vivace]

BIB, etc.,

Thanks. She just started to hint that Friday's might be our sex day--if your a good boy (pisses me off). This was done with great trepidation on her part. Almost like a charity F---. A given is I know she loves me. SHe states that I am pestering her and want sex all the time...yep. The thought that it is not pleasure for her but a duty turns me off, but I still take it when I can get it. I think your advise is totally correct. Seeing as I have been on this terror trip for two years, I will absolutely give it a go. THe key of being very nice appeals to me, but it will be very difficult. I think with the kids and her other business interests, she may not notice my ploy for months. Hell, I have stamina and it is worth a try. I'll let you'all know. BIB, Thanks for your guidance, I think you are right on this one.

[captainoblivious]

Guys,

I amy be whippersnapper her, and my girl is a borderline nymph so my opinion may not count...

but I've always found that flattering, making a women feel sexy, pretty, hot, wanted, desired, etc makes them more likely to jump in bed.

Also making the sexually experience all about them helps to want it more in the future.

[Bib]

Vivace,

Man I hope you have not done anything yet. I just read your last post. I remember the planning thing. She just might work you into her schedule. That sucks.

You cannot be mad about anything. No false fronts. Remember what the goal is: frequent sex. You have to truly be nice in everything. Be genuinely helpful.

Now, on Friday, do not say a word about sex in any way, shape or form. Be nice all day. Do a couple of special things for her. Something a little unusual. If she says come and get it, just say "no, not tonight, I just don't feel like it". Do not give in.

Now she may not try to get in depth the first time you do this. But within say the first five or six times, she will want to 'talk' about the situation. When she says this. Be evasive at first. Then, tell her you "do not wish for her to do something she does not want to do." Remember that line. Then, she will mew a little, and you say, "I'm sorry, but the fact that you don't seem to enjoy it really turns ME off. I just CAN'T do it tonight. Maybe sometime later". Then offer to rub her feet or back or snle with her. Make sure when you tell her this, you are a little hesitant. Like it hurts you to say it.

This will kill her.

If she ever wants to know why you are being sooo nice, tell her it is because you love her and want her to feel good.

Then she will want to talk about it some. Stick to the lines above, period. These lines will run through her head day and night. She will not be able to forget them. Interrupt her at some point and offer to get her something to drink. Change the subject if you can.

The next time she approaches you after this, you will notice a new nighty, probably a teddy. Maybe candles where there were no candles before. The bed may be a little different. Prepare to be seduced. If you can resist this time, you may have it made. Also, if you resist this time or the next, she may cry a little. Hug her. Whatever you do, no boners. Gives you away.

That will do for a start. Let us know what happens.

Bigger

[Bib]

V,

One other thing. If she says she is worried about you getting blue balls or something. Tell her it is ok, you take care of it on your own.

Also, if this does not wake her up, she probably has a medical problem. Hormonal imbalance or something. But I doubt it.

Bigger

[Bib]

@#%$ I keep forgeting stuff.

After you give in the first time and let her have it, she may go back to the same old attitude. If this happens you will really have to shut it down. Nothing. Then, when she starts again and seduces you, just say, "look, I cannot do this anymore. One time per month only hurts me. It does not even feel good because of the built up tension." ***At this point, if you can sniffle a little, it really works.

Then say, "unless we can find a way to do it more often, I need to just take care of myself." **Another sniffle maybe. Then, "I love you, but you need to respect my feelings on this and not do this to me anymore.".

This is the death blow. If you can pull it off, she will @#%$ you every day for two months just to try to feel better about herself and what she has done to you.

Bigger

[dino775]

THE HAND! RIGHT OR LEFT IF YOUR DICK IS BIG ENOUGH USE BOTH. YOU DONT HAVE TO CUDDLE IT OR TALK TO IT OR BUY IT ANYTHING YOU ALSO DON'T HAVE TO LICK IT FOR A HALF HOUR FIRST IT WILL EVEN GET YOU A BEER when your done!

"The power of the pusssy, don't it f-ing suck"

No but really if you guys want the best fuuck of your life from your wife get her good and worked up with your mouth
than enter her missionary style grab both her wrist and gently
hold them down to the bed bury your coock as deep as you can nice and easy. Tell her how much you love her and whisper in her ear ask her if she likes what your doing to her"remember hold on to her wrist tight!" when she answers yes that she likes what your doing tell her SO DOES YOUR SISTER! and than hang on for the ride of your life she will be bucking like a wild bronco trying to get you off. :0]

Dino

[vivace]

BIB,

All day thursday and friday, she gave me lots of extremely subtle sex hints. I did nothing. Friday I rented a video and went to bed late. She was still up watching TV. But in her usual, turn away position. I did nothing. I know if I had begged/asked, she would have done it. Saturday, all day she chit chatted about stuff she had already talked to me about. She all of a sudden was noticing and complimenting me all week on my looks and dress, I modestly admit I am not a bad looking man, but why the comments now? Last friday's charity f--- was particularly good, so I guess maybe the pump has been primed a bit for the Plan A. I Cleaned the bathrooms. Did the dishes all week. I have been aloof, but not mean. Even cooked a great dinner wednesday, which she praised for three days. (suspect she will expect this more often--which I am more than willing to do). She has been more controlling this week than normal in her "What I should do"stuff ( I usually ignore her when she starts this behavior) , which is making it hard for me to be nice. She is all over the kids for small @#%$ and consulting me more than ever on whether she is right. I definately know she seems more willing, but I will stick with the Plan A because if I do not, I know it will be back to the begging thing all over again. Thank you for the "what to say" dialog--I really needed it. I was going to ask you for it about a thousand times this week. My wife is bright, and a Psychologist/ counselor, so I have to be very consistant which has never been easy for me. But, I have never acted this way in 20 years. One week into it, wish me luck. Either way, the status quo was not working for me.

[vivace]

Week 2 begins. I do not believe she has even noticed. LOL i

[Bib]

V,

A watched pot never boils. You have to actually NOT CARE if you ever get sex from her again! If you are watching the clock, or in this case the calender, you will have a certain level of tension that might show through.

Just do all the nice, considerate things. Take care of yourself. Pay attention to her in all ways other than sexual. Let it ride.

Bigger

[titanium30]

There's only one thing people in this world want more than anything else, and it's what they can't have. This is ever so true for women. If she thinks she can have it whenever she feels like it, because you are always ready, she will take it for granted and it will mean nothing to her. I agree with BIB 100% on his strategy. The typical husband wife scenario results in a man not being appreciated.

Titanium

[J Meister]

Yesterday, in casual conversation, my wife said that the day that I acted disinterested in having sex with her (a la the BIB "shut her down" method) would be the day she would know that I was getting it somewhere else. (We had been talking about a stressful project she was trying to finish for work and how she would have more time for other things when that was done. I had jokingly said that I just may not be interested in sex anymore by the time that happens.) That comment made me wonder if BIB's technique would really work in my situation; the last thing I need is to be accused of being unfaithful.

[Bib]

JM,

So, it is ok for your wife to cut you off, but if you cut her off, your fooling around? What manner of BS is that? If you are not already offended, you should be. Personally, I am calling NOW, ACLU, NAACP, and the SPCA.

Bigger

[dino775]

JM

A couple of years ago, my wives best friends husband got caught banging his secretary, for a couple of months she wouldn't let me out of the house without my balls being empty
than when she was secure again it was back to old routine.

Dino

[J Meister]

Bib,

Yeah, it's the old double standard that my wife (and many other women as well, I'm sure) is legendary for. Of course, she doesn't like it when I point out her inconsistencies in what she expects from me and what she actually does herself. I've discussed the double standard with other guys who say they experience the same thing with their wives in many facets of their lives.

Despite being monogamous for the entire time I've been married (15+ years), my wife has always said that I would bang anyone with a p*ssy if I had the opportunity. Being the devoted husband and father that I am, I don't seek out those opportunities. I've always had a look-but-don't-touch philosophy when it comes to other women.

Thanks for your concern and reporting my troubles to the proper authorities.

Dino,

I wish my wife had friends like your wife's. I'd love to have my balls drained dry!

[WillB7]

I know the BE-NICE-BUT-AVOID-SEX technique will not work in my case. My wife can go months without it and she doesn't care. When we finally do it, it's kind of "let's get it over and done with" and back to reading the book. Sex was never a major part in our 20 years marriage, (it's ok but not great) although it's wonderful in many other ways. I know I have a problem cuz I really feel that I am missing something. Never looked at other women till now but lately this is starting to change and I sometimes get "thoughts"(age crisis?-probably yes). My libido is getting stronger all the time while my wife seems to go the opposit way. I am basically the faithful husband type but do you think I should live the rest of my life on masturbation (I jack off a lot and it's great but it's not the real thing) and occasional "charity" sex? This is the first time I talk about it, actually didn't mean to -the words sort of came out ...
Any advice? It will mean a lot to me to know what you guys think I should do. Thanks.
WB

[Bib]

Will

If you showed no interest in sex, she would not say anything for months? Just like nothing is wrong?

In that case, I am afraid I would hit the road. I want it to be a two way street and really want my wife to enjoy it as much as I do. At this point in time, she really does. But it took a lot of effort to get her to this point.

If she was just nonsexual, and I had tried everything I could to stimulate interest, and was always rebuffed, I would have the final talk with her. Most of the time, when the original deal is made (marriage), sex is a part of the deal. It is in the contract. If my wife voided that part of the contract on purpose, I would have to void the entire contract.

The thing with ignoring sex is to generate interest and curiousity. If their is no interest, then something is wrong. Many women because of hormonal changes or imbalances lose their libido. Personal problems can have an effect. You might try to get her to check into some of that with her health care professional.

Same question as to vivace: She does like you, right?

Bigger

[WillB7]

BIB,
I think it's not a hormonal phase she's going through.Over the years we had periods of no sex for weeks and sometimes up to months.The first time it happened was after she gave birth to our first son -It was impossible to touch her and sex was out of the question for a long time.Then it was back to normal untill the next dry period. Maybe it's my fault that I accepted it ,perhaps I should be more aggressive and demanding but as you said I wanted her to want it as much as I do and didn't want it to be a one way thing.
Yes I'm sure she loves me very much we have a good profound relationship, our marriage is perfect(well...almost) in any other way, it's just that sex is not often and she seems to be able to live without it. It's not thats she's unsexual, it just takes a lot of effort to get her in the mood for it and I get a lot of rejections too. I am wondering what can I do to make her want me more sexually. I'm reasonably good looking so the problem is not physical.I think I have to try a new approach, set up an intensive seduction strategy or something, I don't know.I'm sure this is not going to be solved by doing nothing and I am not going to give up on our sex life.You mentioned it took a lot of effort to get wife to the point she likes it as much as you do, what did you do to achieve this? I feel that I have a lot of work to do just don't know exactly what...
Thank you for responding,
WB

[dino775]

Will

You seem like a great guy and a great husband your wife has the problem not you. You are not wrong for wanting to have sex with your wife you have to let your wife know you are not going to live without sex the rest of your life and if she doesn't love you enough to understand you have needs and that she should take care of them she is being selfish and you may need to look elsewhere. Will my wife loves sex but over the years she has learned to use sex as the ultimate weapon
and as a reward for good behavior like I'm a dog or something good dogs get sex bad dogs no sex. Fuuck that shitt! Will I don't have the answers but it ain't right what women do to us.

Dino

[Bib]

Will,

What I did was the ignore thing. Was nice as could be concerning everything else, but just ignored sex. It took a long time before my wife realized it and approached me for sex. I turned it down. She was floored.

She believed that we were to have a celibate marriage from that time forward. It was just too hard on me to have sex only once per month. Too intense. So she turned things around. The wives have to make up their minds that they are as interested as we are. If they believe they are done for life with sex, they seem to rearrange their priorities. Unless there is something wrong physically.

It helps if you sniffle a little also. The thing is, you settle into a celibate, supporting, kind, generous relationship. Almost like a brother-sister thing that is very nice. THEY DO NOT LIKE THAT. If they wanted to marry their brother they would have...oh, maybe not. But you have to sell the deal.

Bigger

[WillB7]

You're absolutly right,dino, the wives drive us crazy sometines, it's because they are "programmed" so differently from us.As a matter of fact it's not really a bad thing, cuz you often don't know what to expect from them and it makes life so much more intertersting, don't you think?
Actually dino, Bib's "ignore" method may be great for you, to try and break the "reward/punishment " through sex behavior your wife is giving you. It sounds very logical and effective and I would try it.
Anyway, in my case it's not an option (it might take like a 100 years with no results).

Bib, no, I don't want a celibate marriage.We are husbane and wife, not a religious order/brotherhood or whatever.Sex is an important part of marriage and both sides need it even if they(especially the wives)will not admit it.

So....

I am going to try a new stategy, the COURTING strategy: I am going to give her a lot of attention, compliments, surprise hugs from behind while she's washing the dishes, kisses,flowers,presents, going out more etc.etc.almost as in pre marriage courting period. I will plan it as a military operation, do my homework (there are several books dealing with the subject with many tips)and she is bound to open up and enjoy sex much more and often!!!
If this will not work then it may be time for the final talk as you called it.But I hope there will be no need for it.
This conversation with you made things that were a long time in the back of my mine to come forward and become very clear and I think I now know what to do - will report when something happens (it will take time so don't hold your breath...)

Thank you for the support , it's really helpful to have someone to vent to and consult and I genuinely appreciate it.
Later,

WB

[dino775]

Will

I hope it works better for you I already tried that one, this is what's going to happen you will do 9 wonderful things and than you will fuck up the tenth and you will be back to "0"
I hope your wife isn't like that but mine is. Good luck bro

Dino

[WillB7]

Dino,
Every relationship is different, if courting didn't work for you then try the ignor srategy, don't give up untill you get exactly what you want. And if you screw up at least you'll know you tried. I'm gonna give it(courting) my best shot, started today and I already feel better (no sex yet but the ice layer seems to be thiner). I will not stop untill white smoke rises up the bedroom window :)
WB

[titanium30]

I've found that when I do things expecting something in return, I eventually get very resentful if I don't get what I wanted. Do those wonderful things for your wife with the primary motivation that you are a good person and know how to treat a woman right. Build up your self esteem through your thoughts and actions. Have reasonable limits on what you will do, you gotta have some dignity / self respect man. If you change your expectations, you will find yourself pleasantly surprised, rather than disappointed. I swear, woman just take men for granted, especially in the sexual department. I remember an ex gf asking me why guys are horny all the time, and I stopped and thought for a second then told her it was because if men were like women, the odds of a sexual encounter would be slim, like rolling double sixes, so to ensure that the species does reproduce, the man has to be ready all the time, for that occasion when the woman is ready. Woman just don't know, or forget how to have fun. They take life too seriously at the wrong times and don't know when to let loose about jobs, ren, etc. Seems you gotta get them liquored up before they loose those strong inhibitions and kick off those panties with vigour. Don't get me wrong, most woman want sex, but they don't want it as much as they like to tell their liberated friends, and definately not on average as much as men NEED IT. Some women are just easier to please than others as well. I remember one gf that was at times tricky to get into bed, but once we were there, just about anything goes, and she was pleased by it all, easy orgasms, etc. Others talked about how horny they were, then when you got them in bed, it was always too hot or too cold, I lasted too long or not long enough, the bed squeaked, just about any f'ng thing broke the mood. Ahh, life is an interesting experience. Women the eternal enigma. Believe me, they don't even understand themselves, so give up on understanding them!

Titanium

[J Meister]

WillB7:
What are the names of the books on this subject you were referring to? I am torn between using the courtship strategy or trying the ignore approach. I can really relate to your situation since it sounds a lot like my own. I'm hesitant to ignore out of fear that life for her would continue to go forward and the lack of sex wouldn't even be noticed! On the other hand, I don't know if I have the time and energy for the courtship strategy. I lost a lot of my fire in the courtship department years ago when I dated a hot redhead for six years and ended up not getting married to her. I know it's not fair to my wife, but I've never been the same since then. I think it was somewhat like going through a divorce from an emotional standpoint, minus the financial hassles and kids. I've never been able to recapture that fire and do the things I used to do for my old girlfriend: e.g., write poetry dedicated to her, write love letters, go dancing, etc.

Titianium 30:
I liked your post a lot. You've definitely captured the essence of the difference between the sexes. Funny thing is, while it would be great for our wives to act like total nymphos once in a awhile; I think it might get annoying if they were that way all the time. Then again, maybe not!

[WillB7]

J Meister & Titanium,

You are both right about women being so much different from men, it starts with the fact that women have a physical cycle of events they are going through all the time, it's a cycle that's constantly changing and it affects their behavior, making them unpredictable and often ununderstandable, whereas men are much more stable and reasonable (see the book recommended bellow).

J Meister to answear your question, a good bestseller book ($16) dealing with the differences between the sexes is

"Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus" by John Gray.

The author, a very experienced councilor to couples, encourages readers to accept the other gender's way of expressing love, and helps men and women learn how to fulfill each other's emotional needs.He also wrote
"Mars and Venus in the Bedroom" ($10) which is obviously more specific and relevant to our desire to score more often...

Also you might be interested to check out Ellen Kreidman's site

www.lightyourfire.com/onl...ps_her.htm (http://www.lightyourfire.com/online/advice/advice_tips_her.htm)

her tape "light her fire" was recomended by HughJorgan earlier on this thread so I went there and found "10 tips how to light her fire", a nice idea with "love coupons" and other stuff that may sound a bit ish but who knows, that might be exactly the trick that will work for us.

As for your dilema, it makes sense to MHO to take the courting strategy as a first choice.Seems that this redhed broke something in you but if you make an effort to find that Romantic spirit again and relate it to your wife,you may be surprised at the outcome.You mentioned she's under a lot of stress right now (job, age), she now needs your support more than ever, and it gives you an excellent opportunity to be good to her in every way, surprise her with little gestures etc etc(I know, dino if you're reading this you probably think it's all BS, but I truely believe it may work - am an uncurable optimist, what can I say). IOW, take the courting strategy (it's quite pleasant actually and you don't have to say no to sex when it comes to it) .Give it some time and see how it goes, then, if in spite of all your efforts you'r not satisfied and sex is still half hearted and on rare occasions,then it will be the perfect time for Bib's ignoring strategy. Coming after a romantic courting period the effect will be even more dramatic and she'll HAVE to ask herself what's happened that you suddenly don't want sex.

My courting offensive is succesful so far, it's been only a couple of days and we already had sex this afternoon (after a very long break) it's like good old times again, I'm surprised cuz I didn't think it would be that easy...

...Go for it!


WB

[WillB7]

Yes it's me WillB7, <seem to now have two user names>

[Canuck]

You know I have been reading this thread since it started and I must be one real big S--T. I feel sorry for you guys that have a hard time getting laid by your wifes. Man that sucks and why are you putting up with it!

Am I one of the "few" that can get sex almost anytime that I want? My wife "knows" that if she cannot satisify me then I will be on the prowl to find something on the side. That happened early in our relationship, but I have been Good for the last 12 years now, not that opportunities have not presented themselves.

My question is why not get some outside sex and let the wife stew over their own "what ever it is" hangups. Maybe if they think that you are getting some of the side, or even thinking that you might get some on the side it might jeck them back to reality and make them willing to jump into bed with you. Shit there is too much stress in the world today to have to put up with that crap and added stress. I guess you have figured out that I am not a romantic and I accept that.

My wife also knows that when the chips are down I am there for her and 2 years ago that was proved when she had a major operation and she was out of commission for over 6 months. Hell she said many times that she was sorry that we could not have sex and felt that she was not keeping up her end of the bargan. I reassured her that life craps on us some time and we just have to put up with it.

Sorry, I am just relieving my mind of this. It sounds like a lot of trouble to go through to just get laid.

Regards Canuck

[dino775]

Canuck

Sounds like good advice to me, I rather jerk off than play all these games to get some pussy. I'm not going to make believe I don't want it. I'm not going to romance her when she being a bitch. I'm not going to beg for it I really don't want it with any conditions on it!

Dino

[J Meister]

WillB8:
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions in such a a detailed manner. I checked out the Ellen Kriedman Light Your Fire website and plan to check out the Mars/Venus books. You've inspired me sufficiently to give the romantic approach a try. The Light Your Fire website has some interesting ideas. I'd like to try some; I just need to work out the logistics of what to do with the kids while I work on seducing my wife. I agree with you; I'm going to try this before using the ignore approach. Incidently, my wife knows about the redhead and saw her at the grocery store a couple of weeks ago. Somehow, we ended up in adjacent suburbs. I think that is part of my wife's problem; it's not good to know about past lovers. Anyway, I appreciate your help and will give it a try.

[WillB7]

Hey J Miester,

I was waiting for your post. Yes, you are on the right way, I can say this cuz for me it's already working big time.Yesterday morning my wife woke me up and practically raped me(!),yes I couldn't believe it either, can't remember when was the last time anything like that happened...She told me she had a dream in which she's giving me head and I come in her mouth, I thought I was not hearing right, it's very unusual for her to talk like that...Oh and sex is really Gooood now,better then before.When we were doing it she whispered:" Where were you all this time..." It was a big turn on.
Apparently it was all my fault that I somehow made her feel unwanted and her self esteem was so low that she didn't have the mood for making love. It was so easy to make her feel desired again and get her 'riding" again that I am sorry I didn't think of the courting strategy earlier. For a long time I felt something was wrong but only after reading this thread and thanks to the conversation I had with Bib, I suddenly realized that if ignoring which I've been unsuccessfully practicing for ages didn't work, than the exact opposite might be the unswear - and it was!
JM, If you take the courting strategy, do it right, do it with all your heart and be sincere. Forget about the redheaded woman, if your wife happens to mention her or meet her in your presense, act as if she (the redheaded) is nothing but a big bore to you. Concentrate on your wife and let her know how much she means to you. And be honest when you say the words. Try to once again to become the romantic chevalier you were! I bet you will light her fire faster then you imagined it to be possible.
Wish you luck,

WB

[dino775]

willb

Glad it's working for you I tried all that stuff I even read that mars/venus book I guess the main think you need to make it work is a sane wife that seems to me the missing ingredient in my marriage. Good luck Bro.

Dino

[WillB7]

Thanks dino, I know you are happy for me.

Dino I like your style, you are honest and very direct, your posts are short but always refreshing and funny with a lot of humor.

Wish I could say something wise and helpful, you sound as if your marriage is doomed and you do your best to make it work but you can't do it alone, it has to be a mutual effort, and you can't change your wife's personality.If you were happy when you just married try to analize what went wrong and take it from there. Maybe some friends who know and care about the both of you can help. You are a good person, a good father and a good husband, if there's love between you you can still succeed with the help of your partner, caring friends and perhaps some professional counseling, to save this marriage.I hope you don't mind me talking about it, I just think you deserve to be happy.

WB

[dino775]

Willb7

Thanks my friend, just venting sometimes helps.
Women can't live with them and don't like hairy man ass. Not that there is anything wrong with that, if thats what someone likes.

dino

[Sizemeister]

Someone move this into best posts, when you're done with it. Great thread!

[ObviousMan]

I just finished reading this thread for the first time. I may not have caught everything, but....

Dino, I'm curious... aside from the sex, how's your relationship with your wife?

Shame on me for not reading Thornes Lab more often. I've missed the ongoings of two very interesting threads. This one is of particular interest as I too have the same problem with my wife. I have seriously considered affairs. I will try the courting approach (not that I already don't pretty much do most of that - I'm a romantic) more and with more vigor. If after time things don't get better, I'll go with BIB's ignore approach, which I almost opted for first. I just hate the rejection! The previous thread by BeBop (hope you're doing well by the way, BeBop) shows just how personal and emotional men are. Someone stated that in the thread - it's so true! What's this about how men only want sex? I want my wife to want to make love with me! I want her to desire me. I don't want to always be the initiator. Why can't she? Doesn't she want to be with her husband - in the closest way two people can express their love for each other? Lovemaking completes a relationship. As was stated by JM, I believe, my wife too has been going through very busy and stressful times. I'm sure this has affected her feelings for intimacy, but if two are in love and truly care about the other, shouldn't the others feelings come first, or at least be a priority? Sorry for the venting, but this thread really hit home and I look forward to read the onging results of everyone's lives here. Thanks for the friendship of all of you guys. What a great forum!

[dino775]

Guys

Moved out this weekend, I just can't seem to please the wife the worse part is she don't even know when I try. Well Merry Christmas Kids what a cluster fuck.

Dino

[ObviousMan]

Carl, I might as well add my $0.02 here.

Not sure where to begin. Suffice it to say, it also ties in with the "meeting Internet women" thread.

I'll try point form, just to be brief.

- met wife in 1986
- married in 1988
- was very loyal to her, for years and years, she was my best friend, could tell her anything
- in the beginning, sex was great (but looking back, I now realize she was pretty vanilla)
- the occasional anal sex stopped at least 10 years ago
- my schlong last saw the inside of her mouth at least 7 years ago (guessing); she never let me cum in her mouth once, much less swallowed
- got 2 great kids, although there were quite a few miscarriages along the way
- trying to conceive our 2nd became *work*; I had to wear a cock ring, watch porn, do any position necessary when she was ovulating, just to become semi-erect
- it was around this time that I thought I was becoming impotent; it became very difficult to maintain an erection
- I chatted an online friend about this; he seemed very knowledgeable about sex (and BDSM)... he basically laughed and said that all I needed was a hot 18 year old... I didn't appreciate his sestion, saying that something else had to be going on
- I didn't realize it at the time, but the stress of the relationship was the root of my problem... it had happened in 1981, with a previous gf
- summer of 1997, I was chatting on IRC and ended up hitting it off with this one woman (I'll call her Alice, cleverly using the letter A ;-) who lived about 2 hours from me
- Alice was (and still is) married, but felt her husband was being consumed with work, and somehow she and I just clicked
- Alice and I met face to face, a week after our first chat. She was going to the airport by herself to visit family for a few days. So, we arranged to meet at the airport. It was electric. :)
- Alice and I met again at some point after she returned. We arranged to meet at a park. The weather was overcast, hinting at rain, in fact there was a very fine mist falling. This was where we had our first kiss. THAT was quite electric, too. I still remember the mist falling on my face. We did some groping, too. No sex, which was fine, but I remember wanting to take her into the nearby trees and doing her right there.
- Did I mention that Alice is a huge fan of anal sex? :-D
- Alice and I met a number of times for 'lunch', which involved lots of necking and groping in one of our cars.
- Alice and I finally booked a hotel room one day, for a few hours of intense play. I sucked her muff so hard, her clit was throbbing. We could both see it. We were both amazed, since neither of us had seen that before. I had bought her a couple of buzzy toys and introduced her to them. She already owned a couple of dildos, but nothing like these. The one she liked, the other she LOVED (and for months later, would hear reports about how she would go on 2 hour masturbation marathons :-)). And yes, we did have anal sex... I couldn't believe how velvety and welcoming her ass was, compared to what I was used to. :P
- That fall, Alice's hubby whisked her away for a tropical vacation around her birthday. She loved it. As soon as she was back home, we were chatting, and I could tell something was different. To make a long story short, she had decided to give hubby another try. To make a longer story shorter, my heart was shredded.
- Around the same time that I met Alice online, I'd met another woman online, too. Let's use the letter B for her... I'll call her Bambi. ;-)
- Bambi lived quite a bit closer to me than Alice.
- Right from the get-go, I made Alice and Bambi aware of each other. No secrets.
- Some days I'd cyber or phonesex one. Some days it would be the other. Some days it would be both.
- I clicked with Bambi a little more gradually online, but was surprised when she gave me her phone number the first time I asked her for it.
- Bambi had an online boyfriend, but he lived 3 timezones away. For this reason, I was able to maintain some sort of distance.
- While Alice was a year older than me, Bambi was 16 years younger. Bambi was 20 when we first started chatting and meeting for coffee.
- Despite the fooling around online and on the phone, I never pressed Bambi for any intimacy. In fact, I managed to keep some distance in that sense until a) Alice had made her decision to go back to hubby, and b) Bambi had had a falling out with her long distance boyfriend.
- I had been doing things with Bambi online and on the phone which, in retrospect, would fall under the umbrella of BDSM. I would tease her, deny her, make her do things she'd never done before.
- When Bambi and I finally did become intimate, it was the first time she ever had multiple orgasms. My wife was out of town for a while, and Bambi and I made out like rabbits. Bambi complimented me in ways that my wife NEVER did. She responded in ways my wife never did. She was far more open and kinkier than my wife would even talk about, much less do. I still remember the first time she said, "I *love* the way you fuuck...." It was the first time a woman had ever said fuuck to me in an intimate situation. And as you can imagine, my ego grew 3 sizes right then and there. Plus my whole attitude on 'dirty talk' changed from that moment forward. :-)
- Bambi had agreed to my request that this would be strictly fun, that once my wife came back, playtime would be over. However, at the end of that period, neither one of us wanted to do without the other. So, we managed to meet on the side for a looooong time.
- Let me interject here and say that Bambi's sexuality was mind blowing. Nothing I had ever experienced in my *life* had prepared me for anyone like her. And all along, she said it was me, that I did this to her, that I blew her away. On top of this, she was also a very fine person, sassy, lots of fun, great sense of humour, never playing mind games or being a bitch, etc.
- Eventually my work took me out of town. Bambi and I maintained some sort of phone relationship, but it had degraded dramatically to just a friendship. Still, she didn't date anyone else for a long time after I left... more than a year, in fact.
- I felt that Bambi was The One, but needed to finish up work before trying to start a separation/divorce.
- I should mention that Bambi and I had dabbled in bondage and fisting.
- One day I was chatting online with another woman about my sexual likes and dislikes. She said, "You know what? You're a Dom." I was like, wha...? That really made me stop and think. But it was definitely a turning point for me. I looked back at my relationship with Bambi, and thought... holy $H!T, she's right!
- Some months after I started working away from home, I ended up chatting another woman online (Bambi had long since stopped chatting online by this time), and meeting her for coffee a month later. Since I need a name starting with C, let's call her Chloe.
- The relationship was pretty good with Chloe from the get-go. She had just left her hubby of 13 years (since high school) and the sex was great. However, I learned she wasn't interested in anything of a BDSM nature. Maybe for very light play, but nothing major. She wasn't interested in being subbie, and never really said she was interested in being Domme. (Mind you, I did fist her on our first date, totally blowing her away.)
- For a while there, I felt that Chloe was maybe the one for me. But after 4-5 months, she and I started having to deal with obstacles (she lived 2 hours away, her car eventually crapped out, I didn't have a car, etc). It gave me time to think. I thought, given the choice between Bambi and Chloe, I wanted Bambi. Unfortunately, I'd also opened my heart to Chloe, so I didn't want to let go of her.
- Chloe and I had some major bumps along the way. For one thing, it turns out that she didn't like me flirting with other women online, even if it *was* innocent. She became concerned when these other women would ask if anyone had seen me, when I wasn't around (she thought I was building up a harem :P ). Plus, she was having battles with her ex, who was using their kids as pawns. Plus she had job troubles.
- Around this time, I sensed something was up with Bambi, something I got in an e-mail from her. I replied back, and didn't hear squat from her for days. She finally replied, saying she'd met someone else. My heart went through the shredder again, only this time, it was far worse. Still, I managed to keep communications open with Bambi, after initially being shut down.
- Before you ask, no, Bambi didn't know about Chloe. I may have told Chloe about having been with Bambi before meeting her, but never did I say anything to Bambi.
- I ended up letting Chloe move in with me for a couple months, because a) she'd lost her job for some completely lame excuse, and b) she'd been kicked out of her apartment for having a kitten. We tried to make another go of it. She got another job, moved out (because she wanted to be able to have her kids over, which was fine) etc.
- Chloe and I had more relationship problems. She knew how I felt about her, but didn't feel the same way (anymore), and felt bad that she didn't feel the same way, felt that I was a great guy, etc. Still, we tried to make it work. Had a few more great times, even.
- Chloe was also holding onto the ghost of a previous online relationship. Literally. A few years earlier, she'd fallen in love with a guy from the UK. Her hubby found out about this, and forbade her to chat online at all. She agreed, trying (once again) to make her marriage work. But she couldn't resist, and got back online again. Her UK bf even told her he wouldn't pressure her, but after one bit of news about the idiot hubby, he told her to pack her things and get her kids, he was going to send them tickets to fly over to England and be with him. She was thrilled, but declined. Eventually he made plans to come and stay near her, so they could actually meet. A month before this happened, his roommate contact her to tell her that he'd died the night before (they'd been out drinking, and he fell down the stairs, breaking his neck). The roomie didn't know about this, being passed out on the bed the whole night.
- Then one day I was talking with Chloe after watching a matinée, and felt that something was up. I knew that she'd been out of work for a while (again), and knew that she was in financial dire straits. I realized that things weren't right with us, and reluctantly asked her if she wanted to move back in (she'd told me that maybe she could go live in her grandparents' basement for a while). She declined... but there was something in her voice. I asked her if she'd met someone else. She said she had. (No, it wasn't online. No, they hadn't even kissed.) This time, my heart didn't go straight to the shredder; it just sort of deflated slowly. She was planning to go over to his place after talking to me (turns out her visit to me and then to him had been planned), so I told her to knock herself out, and not to hold back on the kissing or the sex on my account. (I found out later that she took me up on that.)
- I'd loaned Chloe money over a period of months. I'm still waiting for that money. :-( But I feel she's sincere, and when she can pay it, she will.
- I still have Chloe's e-mail address and phone number, but the last time I exchanged words with her was back in late October, I believe.
- While all this was going on, I'd end up seeing Alice online once in a while. We'd managed to stay very good friends despite our parting of ways. (She maintains to this day I was the best oral sex she'd ever received. ;-) I would give her updates as to what was going on in my life, and she would occasionally tell me to $H!T or get off the pot, that I wasn't doing myself any favours. I already knew that, but....
- Meanwhile, back with Bambi....
- Bambi would phone me out of the blue, usually when she was driving home from work. We would chat about this and that. (I learned early on that it wasn't a good idea to talk about her new boyfriend.) I still enjoyed chatting with her... I'd crack her up, and she'd crack me up. :-)
- On 9/11, Bambi phoned me that morning, after the WTC news hit the airwaves. She wanted to make sure I was okay, since she knew I was flying around that time (actually, I'd flown a day earlier). She was the only one of the three women to call me to check up on me. (Mind you, I don't think Alice had my phone number.)
- Early in October, Bambi phoned me late one night after work. We chatted about this and that, when suddenly out of the blue she says things like: when was I going to leave my wife (for me, not for Bambi); she and her boyfriend had called it quits a month or two earlier, but she decided not to tell me at the time (I was stunned to hear that news); somehow, talking with me kept fuucking her up (meaning, I assume, that she kept trying to put me away in a 'safe' place, but then old feelings would surge to the forefront again); that after this phone call, there would be no more phonecalls till I'd divorced my wife (aha, so it would seem she *did* still want me).
- I've since sent Bambi a few e-mails. Then one day, a month after that fateful phone call, she called late one night and left a voice mail msg on my cell phone, saying 'hi' a few times, telling me she and one of the women she was rooming with had found a new place to live (even gave me a nearby intersection). That gave me renewed optimism, so I zapped off a few e-mails and voice mail msgs. I didn't hear anything back till a few days ago (e-mail), basically giving me another friendly update, and that yes, she meant what she said and won't be changing her mind (presumably that there would be no voice chat till I'm divorced). *sigh*
- During all of this (starting around Oct/00), I'd made another female online acquaintance. The downside is, she lives in New Zealand. The upside is, she's also a fab person, and her sexuality was very similar to the power of Bambi's sexuality. She's never been a subbie before, but our relationship has very much gone in that direction. We've never met face to face (I'm sure by now many of you are thinking I'm a flake :P ). Let's call her something beginning with D... Darlene works.
- I'm glad my relationship with Chloe is history. If I knew in the beginning the troubles we would have had, I never would have chosen that path.
- My feelings (love) for both Bambi and Darlene are VERY deep. I know that Darlene feels the same way as I do. And yes, Darlene knows all about Alice, Bambi and Chloe (and other distractions along the way). I realize I've painted myself into the proverbial corner, because I know that one day, I'll have to choose (or maybe I'll simply end up losing) one or the other.

Along the way, I've had a handful of online-only relationships. Most of those extended to the phone, but I never actually met any of them. It was enlightening, to say the least. (One of these women still wants to be my online slave. Another couple of women says they're still in love with me. Two of these women got my name tattooed somewhere on their bodies. And so it goes.)

Having said all of this, now I can comment on my wife.

I've come to realize that over the years, my wife and I have changed. I've become more open-minded, she's become more close-minded, rigid. I sested some light bondage one night, and she gave me a strange look and said, "Where do you get these ideas?!?" *sigh*

I got my first penis pierce in the summer of 1997. (I'd actually invited both Alice and Bambi to come and witness the event, but at the last second, Bambi was called in to work an unexpected shift, and Alice got a flat tire on the way over.) Over the years, I got 7 other pierces down there. Presently, I'm wearing 2 frenums. I didn't tell my wife about my first piece. After I'd lost that pierce and got my 2nd pierce, I told her. She wasn't too happy about it. (I should mention that she never fondles me, and sex was so rare that I guess she never noticed the first pierce.) Alice got to experience my first pierce (she rather liked it), Bambi *loved* all of the pierces I got, and ended up getting many of her own to match, Chloe liked the look of the pierces, but had mixed feelings on the feeling of them. Darlene hasn't experience my pierces yet, but gets wet thinking about them (and masturbates thinking about them, among other things ;-).

I also got my tongue pierced in Mar/98. I never told my wife. I got a black niobium barbell, and keep my tongue inside my mouth, don't open my mouth wide while facing her... you get the general idea. She's never once said anything about my tongue pierce, and I'm pretty sure that if she ever did, she'd have a few unpleasant things to say about it. We stopped with the tongue hockey years ago... seems that whenever I was even so much as interested in a kiss, either I would have a cold, or she would have a cold, and she became... hmm, not germ-phobic, but she didn't want to give the cold any opportunity to get around.

My wife isn't interested in getting pierced, whereas I love the look and feel on the tongue, nipples, labia, hood, clit, nostril (not septum), navel....

My wife is generally not interested in sex. And I'm generally not intererested in sex with her (although there are sporadic late night bumps and grinds). She's dull and uninspiring in bed. When she cums, it's a quiet little sigh, whereas Alice was noisy, Bambi was *really* loud, Chloe was noisy, and Darlene is noisy. My wife is good for one orgasm, maybe two on a good night. I always thought it was because I was a good, but not a great lover. But Alice, Bambi, Chloe and Darlene are all multiorgasmic. In fact, Bambi is good for an orgasm marathon, and Darlene even moreso. I just have no urges for my wife. If I end up rubbing up against her in the middle of the night, it's usually because I've had an erotic dream (of someone other than my wife). There have been more than a few times where I've caught myself, and stopped myself, because (quite frankly) masturbation makes me feel better about myself than sex with my wife.

Add in the fact that she likes to whinge and make mountains out of molehills, gets upset when I do X, gets upset when I do the opposite of X, regularly raises her voice and puts that irritating 'edge' to it.... *grimace*

Oh, and my wife was the first virgin I'd ever had. I'd always told myself that I would marry an experienced woman, and after meeting her and settling on her, decided to ignore my own advice.

One thing about online chat, is that I learned that what I used to think was pervy and pushing the edge, is actually very acceptable by a great number of women. Not all women like the same things, of course. But I've learned that many women are open to the idea of fisting (if they haven't already tried it), many other women cringe at the thought of it. Women like Alice, Bambi and Darlene love anal sex. Women like Bambi, Chloe and Darlene love giving BJ's, and swallowing. (My wife has NEVER let me cum in her mouth, much less swallowed.) Women like Bambi and Darlene are interested in bondage, and at least spanking. Women like Darlene are discovering that they like much, much more. Women like Bambi are bisexual. Women like Bambi and Darlene can cum and cum and cum and cum. The whole online chat world opened my eyes, big time. It also allowed me to come out of my shell, so to speak. I can be very frank and open with women online, and in Real Life, looking at a pretty woman can still leave me fumbling for words. (I think it's the eyes which throw me into a tailspin.)

I don't hate my wife. But like someone else said, she's become more like a sister to me, a sister that I'd rather not see on a regular basis.

I know I need to divorce her. I'm not looking forward to that. (That may be why I haven't done it already.) Right now I've been unemployed for several months, but once I've got my finances back in order, I'll move forward with it. Wish me luck.

As for which woman will be in my future, Bambi or Darlene, I still don't know. They're both incredible women. I'm sort of hoping that I'll have some profound insight which will tell me clearly which way I should go. (Sidebar: I've found a psychic connection with Darlene. I know I've had some sort of psychic connection with Bambi, but it was more primal. The one I have with Darlene goes beyond that. You can go ahead and label me a flake now. :P~~ )

Another sidebar: I've come to realize over the past couple years that despite the overcrowding in our world, there are a lot of lonely people out there. And despite how hot a woman can look, she can be carrying baggage like you wouldn't believe. Just because she's gorgeous on the outside, doesn't mean she's an unspoiled canvas on the inside. A lot of it can be overcome, just set your expectations realistically.

Wow... this was much longer than I expected it to be. Sorry for the rambling.

I guess I have a few points here:

1. If you love your wife like crazy, and can't ever see yourself apart and want to make it work, go for it. Do the romance thing. Do the ignore thing. Maybe talk to a marriage counsellor.

2. If you're married and are having doubts about your wife and yourself, try online chat (if you have the opportunity), or get out there in the real world and see if other women find you charming and attractive. At the very least, you'll have a feel for whether you've been missing out on anything (like I discovered).

3. If you're unhappy in your current relationship (wife or gf), especially if you've tried to make it work more than once (and failed), you need to put her behind you. I know that it can hurt like hell, but the only alternative is a lifetime of self-abuse, in the form of beating yourself up to make your relationship work. It shouldn't be that way. If you find yourself saying, "Yeah, we've had problems before, but this time it'll be different," you're deluding yourself. You can't change. Neither can she. If you like huge breasts and keep telling yourself that you'll be content with small breasts (like I used to say to myself), you're only lying to yourself. You might be content, but just barely. Trust me when I say there's a woman out there for you who's everything you want in a woman, and then some. In all likelihood, there's a frustrated woman out there who wishes she could meet someone just like you, and not the putz she's with now (or just finished dating/divorcing).

4. Getting married is a happy event. Interestingly, getting divorced makes people deliriously happy. If you doubt me, ask someone who's divorced.

I think that's enough rambling for now. :P~~

[dino775]

OMan

WOW!! gonna have try this chat thing!


Dino }:-)~

[ObviousMan]

Dino, allow me to share with you some options:

- IRC: very well established, fairly straightforward interface (more on this later)
- ICQ: great for person-to-person, but finding active multi-user chat was never something I found to be its strong suite
- MSN: similar to ICQ, but I find has a friendlier interface. Also ties in nicely if you have a Hotmail e-mail account, getting instant alerts when new mail comes in. Also supports voice chat.
- Yahoo Chat: more chaotic, less regulated than IRC. Users can choose nicknames with really irritating fonts, colours, and so on. From my experience, the vast majority of Yahoo chatters are pretty young. One advantage it has, is it supports voice chat, which is great if you want proof that a woman is a woman, but is irritating if some nimrod wants to play his CD collection for all. Thanks to the Ignore function, that can be controlled somewhat. You can use a web browser, or you can use their downloadable client.

There are others I'm sure, but I first found out about IRC (Inter-Relay Chat) back in around 1987/88, when I was taking a night school computer course. If you decide you'd like to try IRC, you'll eventually need to make some decisions. Some food for thought:

- Which IRC client? I've tried various clients under Windows and Unix, and have to say that mIRC is my fave. (Others are: dIRC, pIRCh, ... you can browse the choices on www.tucows.com.) One way to get mIRC is to just go to www.mirc.com and download it. Also read the help there, to get you started. Once you get comfy with mIRC, you can choose any one of hundreds of nifty scripts to help make life online more enjoyable.

- What's an IRC network? It's a collection of servers whose administrators have agreed to be running a particular version of server software and configured to only talk to each other (and not to other IRC network's servers). When you're configuring your client, you usually pick a server from one of the IRC networks. If for some reason you decide that the performance of the server you've connected has gone into the toilet, you can hop to another server. (Sometimes you'll get "server full" msgs. *shrug*) If you list the various IRC networks that the author already added into the configuration, you'll notice there are a *lot* of them. Off the top of my head, there's Efnet, Dalnet and Undernet. If you're feeling adventurous, you can check out the various networks, list the channels and go from there. Caveat: I know that Dalnet has thousands of channels, so if you're on dialup, be patient while they list. You won't be able to stop it once it's started.

- Which IRC network? I don't know about 1987/88, but in the early 1990's I dove into Efnet. One advantage was that it was popular and had a lot of servers. I do know that some ISPs have been "autokilled" from Efnet thanks to abusive users. I think @Home was one of them. If you see msgs regarding being "akilled" in your status window when you connect, you could be in trouble. Of the disadvantages, there are a few. For one thing, you can only pick a nickname at *most* 9 characters long. That may not seem to be a problem, but with the many users out there, you may find that the nick you want isn't available. The Efnet network was pretty unstable at times, and occasionally you'll run into "op wars" and other BS. After a friend introduced me to Dalnet, I dropped Efnet pretty quickly. On Dalnet, you can have nicks up to something like 30 characters long, although most users choose something a little more straightfoward. Plus, you can register your nick with NickServ (just don't forget your password, otherwise you have to wait 30 days for it to expire). Plus, if you create your own channel, you can register it with ChanServ. If you do this, then you automatically get Op privileges in that channel, regardless of whether there's anyone else in the channel before you get there. (Normally, the first person to join a channel creates that channel, and they automatically get Ops privileges. Once you're an Op, you can give Op privs to anyone else in the channel, or kick someone out of the channel, or ban them, and a few other things. The last one to leave the channel causes the channel to cease to exist. ChanServ registration is a way of giving persistence to a channel when nobody is in it. But I digress.)

IRC isn't perfect. You'll hear users complaining about this or that. Mostly you'll hear about dorks messaging privately without asking. In some channels, that's acceptible, but in the channels I frequent, that's frowned on at the least, and usually punishible with a kick/ban. The way to get chatting with women, is to be witty and charming and occasionally self-deprecating in the channel. If you feel someone's warming up to you, you can ask her to take it private. Sometimes you'll be surprised when a woman sends you a PM (private message) out of the blue first.

Hhhmmm... I wasn't planning on doing an IRC tutorial, but let me try and quickly hit on some points:

- in mIRC, there's an icon which will let you list the channels. As mentioned earlier, this could take a while over a dialup, but at least you'll get the names of the channels and their topics. One way to go to the channel is to double-click on that entry. Another way is to type /join <name of channel>, where the channel name *always* begins with a '#'. To leave the channel, either click the X of that particular window, or type /part in that window
- to send someone a message, you can either type "/msg <nickname> your message here" or "/query <nickname> your message here" or "/notice <nickname> your message here". /msg and /query are the same, only /query automatically opens a private chat window for you. /notice differs in that it just puts the text anywhere you happen to have focus, so it tends to get lost in the stream of chatter, except for the fact that it's a different colour. If you do a DCC (Direct Client-Client) chat, you end up using the IRC servers to essentially set up a private chat which, after establishing it, makes you independant of the servers for the rest of that conversation (which is great, if there's some lag happening). Another (related) option is DCC Send, which is for sending someone a file (usually a .jpg picture).

This is the vast majority of what goes on most of the time. There are some finer details, but I don't wanna blow you out of the water. :P~~

Oh, be advised that in some channels, you could be blown away by how busy it is. I strongly advise avoiding #sex at all costs just for that reason, especially over dialup.

If you decide to come onto Dalnet, drop me an e-mail and I'll tell you how to find me there. BTW, if you choose a nick that someone else has already registered with NickServ, there's a chance that you'll be forced to pick another nick after 60 secs. If you haven't, it'll force one on you, starting with "Guest" followed by a 5-digit number. Guest nicks aren't a great way of making a favourable impression online, so you'd be wise to pick a nick that hasn't been registered, and register it.

Anyhoo... hope that's enough of a jump start!

Like Dino said, WOW! You have quite a story to tell. Yes I've tried online chat and have had those types of "friends". As a matter of fact, some of these women have fallen for me and would very much like to meet me - a few I have met. There are also a couple of women (not internet relatlated) I see regularly in everyday life who flirt a lot with me, one of whom I have very deep feelings for and she feels the same. She is married too. As you mentioned, she and I have a real spiritual closeness and I feel quite sure that we will become physical one day. You might say I feel in love with her and I know she feels the same. However, I do still love my wife dearly and am still in love with her. Maybe it's just an excuse, but I feel if our intimate relationship was better, I would not stray to online women or these two I know in the real world. By the way, the other one is also 13 years younger and has the same problem with her husband - he doesn't desire her. Yes we've had these disscussions and can feel for each others pain. It wouldn't surprise me if we became physical too one day. Ironically the other more spiritual woman is 9 years older than me. She is very beautiful and very sexy - what I picture in my mind when I think sexy! I should say they are both very hot. I never thought of myself as a great looking guy, but am told I am. I also have the kind, gentle personality that seems to attract women. So as you can tell, I feel quite torn and that soon may become even worse if things progress with either of these women. I can't say enough about the older one though. We really connect and our feelings go deep - and I mean deep. I'd love to say even more, but somehow, even with the anonymity of the net and this forum, I feel restricted. Seems if I pour out too much info I could be labled as "somone you might know". I realize all the people in the world who read this, but still I have this paranoia. Thanks for opening your life up to us. I'd like to hear how things work out with you and all others here. As I said, this is just an awesome forum and an awesome group of guys. I wish I didn't feel restricted to say all I want - as many of you know, I've said quite a lot over the past year, but this subject is different than PE. This is real life with very threatening consequences. Tell me I'm crazy to feel this way. Thanks for listening and letting me open up at least some of the way.

Dino, sorry to hear you moved out, but based on all the the things you said, sounds like you made the right decision. Don't know how you handle all you've got on your plate - my hat is off to you and I wish you the best of luck. Of course the worst part of all this is your kids being in the middle - try to spend as much time as you can with them. I'm very curious to find out how your wife reacts to your moving. Will she realize the mistake she's made? Would you return to try again if things are promised to change? Life can be very difficult, but we need to keep our heads up and keep on pling away, admittedly, tough to do at times. Good luck!

[dino775]

Oman

Thanks for the lesson I think I will try yahoo, I had it once and more guys than girls talking to me. But now I have a little more freedom to pursue these women I meet on line.

Carl

I really don't know what will happen with me a the wife when you have kids things are different. My kids are the most important thing in the world to me I would do anything for them even go back with the wife if she would wake up deal with her problems the problem being is she thinks I'm the only one with the problem so we are kinda at a dead end. The good thing is there is not another guy this time so maybe it will work it self out. The other factor is that why I make a decent living I'm not rich and it wouldn't be easy to support to separate households, I have a huge mortgage on my home my wife is driving a brand new suv I got a shit load of bills. For me to go out get a apartment get furniture and pay all is near impossible. The wife don't work both kids are in school so she can't get a job without getting a baby sitter so it's not worth it she really has no skills. And I don't want to disrupt my kids lives anymore than I have to.
Carl
If you wife ain't having sex with you and she is aware this is a problem she is being selfish so if that other women needs it and you don't think she would be boiling rabbits in a pot at your house i would say go for it,,,,,,,I would I wish I was close with a women now who would make me feel good about myself because according to my wife I'm pretty much a piece of crap. Believe it or not I would really like some romance in my life yea that's right even big bikers need a little romance now and than I would love just to see a women look at me and see look of love in her eyes. You know when they look up at you while your cock is in there mouths and your just about to blow you load."well you didn't think I was getting all sensitive did ya" but really that would be nice so if you can get that with out to many strings go for it but be careful

Dino ~(o:{D

[ObviousMan]

Carl, I wouldn't worry much about it. Don't go posting real names or locations, say things that only you could know about, and Bob's yer uncle.

It would take a Herculean effort to try and track down something on any one of us. I think the chance of someone stumbling across "coincidental facts" and pointing the finger at you is less likely than being struck by lightning. Just my opinion.

And even if someone does try to implicate you in something like this (after all, it's not illegal, so they would essentially be admitting they have no life of their own), remember these words of wisdom: Deny, deny, deny.

[ObviousMan]

Dino,

If you decide you'd like to try out IRC (Dalnet), let me know and I'll make sure that once you're online at the same time as I am, to show you around the channels that I frequent, and introduce you to others as an acquaintence of mine. Then I'll lead by example how I schmooze in the channels. ;-)

Dino, thanks for the advice. Because she is also married, I know we could/would keep things very close between us. Neither of us is willing to give up our marriages (just yet). We just have this fantastic feeling between us and as you say, I really feel the attraction she has for me, unlike the lack of attraction feelings from my wife. I don't mean to paint such a bleak picture of my wife - she is a great woman, but just very non-sexual. Not very touchy feely and everything has to be just right to be in a lovemaking mood. I will continue to try on both fronts to see how I can make my life happier.

I do hope your wife sees the mistakes she's making and ask/beg you to come back. Sounds like you might have some hope in that regard. I would imagine after a while, she will come around and see what she's missing in a husband, lover and father of her ren.

OM, thanks to for your words about the net in general. I agree chances of discovery are very unlikely, however, I'll continue to be cautious given the circumstances. As I said to Dino, now I'll continue on my course to try to keep happy in ways that I like. I know this road could get rocky and with that in mind, I'll tread carefully and always look over my shoulder. At least I hope to.

[ObviousMan]

Carl and Dino,

I've come to realize a couple things as a result of chatting/meeting other women online:

- my wife has changed over time (or, perhaps more likely, her latent traits have come out over time)

- I've changed over time (or, perhaps more likely, my latent traits have come out over time)

Let me try to give an example.

One thing I've come to realize about myself is that I'm a boob man. (I'm sure that any woman (and maybe a few men) reading this are rolling their eyes right about now. I won't get into the whole discussion of why being entranced by boobs shouldn't be any different than legs, eyes, face, etc.) I'm not talking about any boobs. I'm talking about well-endowed women. That should be obvious, man. ;-)

My wife isn't a busty woman. In the beginning of our relationship, I had thought that a) I would never meet another busty woman (I can think of a couple I'd dated) for the rest of my life, b) that boobs weren't so important; that I could live with a woman who wasn't endowed, c) that if I just placed less emphasis on big boobs that my interest in them would go away or diminish considerably, etc. I think I'd mentioned to my wife that I did have an interest in them; she would tease me on occasion whenever a busty woman was about, but one day she reacted pretty negatively and ever since, I've either downplayed them, ignored them, or pretended they didn't matter to me. Basically, I was in denial.

Now, what's interesting here is that Bambi, Chloe and Darlene were/are all DD cup women. (Alice was something like an AA, but sex is a major priority in her life, plus she was seriously contemplating implants for the longest time.) I rediscovered what it's like to touch them, play with them, fall asleep with my hand cupping one, etc. And these women love(d) to have me touch them. Well, Bambi definitely did, I know Chloe did for a while, and well, Darlene and I haven't met face to face yet, but I know her feelings on the matter. *grin*

I can remember both times my wife was preggers, and grew to about the D cup size or so. But, she HATED having me touch them, so I was pleasant and didn't push the issue. (She also hates having her hair/scalp touched and hates wearing tight pants, but that's another story.)

This is merely one facet of my sexuality, one which I'd been in denial of.

I think I'm neglecting to mention something here, but I can't think of it now. Oh, maybe this is it: Carl, you describe your mutual feelings with this other woman. Don't be surprised if it gets extremely hot, and if you really start to question your relationship with your wife. If you like, make a checklist of the things you like and dislike about both of them. Be fair, and be complete. If you have a safe place to hide the list, check it every month or two to see if the balance has shifted at all.

I think that's it for now.

Well guys, I've decided to go right to BIB's ignore theory. I'm trying to be nice, although I must admit it gets pretty hard when we go for days and days without being intimate. I mean what is going on with her? We do have some family staying with us over the holidays, but still, our room is pretty private. Wouldn't she think of even offering a hand job? As I write this, we're going on over twenty days without being intimate, but some of that time I was away on business. So, I'm going to keep playing the game of being nice, but not trying to initiate anything - as I said, I'm tired of being the initiator all the time. It's her turn, or we won't be intimate at all and then pretty soon she'll see something is very wrong. I can already tell she is feeling a little guilty as she has lately been telling me "I love you" a lot! She's also probably wondering about me reading seanjacobs recommended reading - How to make love all night (the book about male multiorgasm). Although it will be hard (;-)), when/if she does initiate lovemaking, I won't feel like it or be tired or something. As BIB said, I know she'll really wonder what's happening. Maybe she'll be ready because she very well knows I'm tired of being the one who always starts lovemaking - perhaps this plan was too long coming. I'll keep you posted. Nothing new to post on the other two women and not sure I'll divulge that info if/when the time comes anyway. Good luck to the rest who are having similar difficulties with their wives.

Thanks for the tips of keeping those notes - it's a good idea. Also, I believe you're right that if something starts between me and the other woman, it will be very hot - I'm quite sure of it. We've known each other for several years now and have had many heart to heart conversations. From the start we just clicked and have gotten closer ever since. Time will tell how my life will evolve.

[dino775]

Carl

I moved back home, my daughter was getting screwed up my son was acting up in school and for the first time the wife was willing to make some compromises, I don't kid my self that this is for love just that she realizes at least that I'm an important part of the family and that things fall apart without me. Let me know how it works with your wife with the no interest in sex routine, remember you got to be nice in all other ways, women don't realize guys are a lot nicer and easier to deal with when our balls are empty. If you don't get anywhere with the wife I think you need to take a business trip and meet up with the other women spent two days locked in a hotel room.

Dino

[IronmanMO82]

If anyone still watches this thread, isn't a bunch of it missing?

Yes, several of the last posts are gone. Too bad, this is a very interesting thread, but fortunately, the earlier posts are still here.

[IronmanMO82]

yeah, well now my conversation with Obvious and Dino is gone! #(*@in ezboard people... ah well, no worrys

[dino775]

freaking ezboard they suck mouse ass

[mistered]

imo; i think wifey sometimes gets kinda-sorta fed up with hubby's farm animal stud service inc. wifey wants mental stimulation; hubby wants to bang and then shoot. so what does one do to get wifey back in the barn yard again? nothing. first, he must step out of his corral and then step into her bedroom. if hubby shows his reserved emotional side as well as doing the things with wifey that are outside of the stud business, he's in. wifey wants to feel loved and wanted and validated, not to mention pampered in her bedroom. which by the way is a place of lengthly fore-play, and sex with out the presence of ol'henry; at least until almost the end. then when henry enters the room (you know, "inside") it becomes the beginning round again. yep, that's right; another lengthly session of pampering, this time you are not doing the pampering. ol'henry is. once it is all mastered and the right ritual is figured out and if hubby learns to remain vacated from the barn yard stable, then wifey will probably want it "more" than hubby. then hubby will have a new problem to work out. hubby's job is never done, but hey; some one has to do it. mistered.

[dino775]

Carl

How's the plan working?


dino

[J Meister]

Based on my own experience and a limited unscientific sample, watching a classic film with your wife may be the way to a great lay. Watched the 1961 film "Breakfast at Tiffany's" with the wife the other night and then went to bed. She was definitely in the mood and we were both firing on all cylinders! Due to illness and other issues , this encounter had been long-anticipated on my part. My PE-enhanced dick played a starring role as she repeatedly told me "Your dick feels so goood!!!

A 28-year old hottie coworker (relax guys, she's married) told me that she loves old movies (she grew up watching them with her parents). My nephew recently married a young hottie whose favorite movie is none other than "Breakfast at Tiffany's." Based on this unscientific sample, perhaps this technique will work on the GenXers out there as well.

My theory is that with these old films, the plot hints at sex but leaves a lot to the imagination. You the viewer are required to fill in the blanks in your own mind, unlike today's movies that show you more than you really wanted to see. I think that womens dig that ability to create the scene in their own minds and respond better to the hint of sex than a visual blast of sex.

[J Meister]

The other night, after we had returned from a night out, my wife was in the walk-in closet, putting away her evening clothes. She was standing on a stepstool, dressed in bra and pantyhose. I seized the opportunity and took off her bra and started fooling around. She responded immediately and the next thing I knew, she was down off the stepstool, folded it up, and pulled me to the floor of the walk-in closet. We then proceeded to have some of the best sex of recent memory. My PE-enhanced dick was up to the task and she was feeling it! After the deed, she commented on the quantity of cum I deposited in her. She brought it up (the size of my load) several more times over the course of the weekend, apparently the size of my load made quite an impression--she seems to think that she drained my balls dry. Little does she know of the effect that my vitamin/supplement regimen (ArginMax & Lecithin) had in creating this super load.

I think that anytime you do something out of the ordinary, i.e., initiate sex in unusual places, wives will respond by getting turned on more easily. Just make sure that you are both comfortable with the "unusual place". In my mind, unusual does not equate with public. Look for unusual yet private places where you can surprise her and look for her passionate response.

[J Meister]

If either you or your spouse go out of town on business, never overlook the opportunity for action when you or she returns. My experience is that wifey is always more than ready after being gone for a few days. Seems like she takes time to fantasize about sex while out of town. I've gotten some of my best action when she returns.

[wannabhung]

This is an old thread, but I thought this link is right on.
http://www.bowdoin.edu/~ewoodbur/niceguy.html

[luvdadus]

http://209.151.86.93/forum/showthread.php?postid=17678#post17678

[twatteaser]

What an interesting post! I was glued to it for like an hour plus reading it over and over.

[doublelongdaddy]

Originally posted by Bib

vivace,

The hormone thing could be a big factor. A lot of stuff changes during this period. But did you ever see the posts a long time ago with Sean Jacobs about cutting her off? Many times, this is just a power thing.

Be really nice in all things except ignore her completely about sex. Give her back rubs, take her out, do other stuff for her. But no sex. Work on your PE during this time. Take care of yourself. Forget about sex with her.

After a while, she will drop hints, maybe make some advances. This is a trick. Ignore all of it because she just wants you back on the hook. Continue on, being very nice. After you have rebuffed her a few times, she will probably want to 'talk' about it. Tell her you understand what she is going through and don't want her to do anything she does not want to do. Even tell her you can take care of yourself. Not a problem.

Soon, she will really want to have sex. She will talk you into it. This is also a ploy. Make it kind of hard but give in. Then, forget about sex again. She will drop hints etc., but the more you hold out, the more you will get later.

I NEVER ask for sex anymore. Ever. It simply comes to me like clockwork, four or five times per week. Of course, the added equipment does not hurt either.

Bigger


First time I read this Bib...This is an exact description of what I do. It is great to have the women begging.

[Bib]

DLD,

Isn't it amazing? No work, no worry, just sit back and let it come.

Bigger

[twatteaser]

So it is Oppurtunities come to those who wait?

[Bib]

twat,

>So it is Oppurtunities come to those who wait?<

That is how it ends up, but that is not how it works. I suppose it is more of a 'wanting what you cannot have' thing. If a person you love denies you something, how much would you think about it? Would it make you curious? Perhaps a mystery to solve? Would you want it more or less?

At any rate, it must go along with a lot of love and attention in all other areas. The love must show through. Then at some point, relate that you understand her problem with sex and can take care of yourself. This is the killer.

Bigger