Testosterone Levels

[J Meister]

I got the results from the testosterone test I had done last week. The test showed my testosterone level to be 313. The nurse giving me this result declared my testosterone level to be "normal". I asked her what the range for "normal" testosterone levels was. She replied that the normal range is from 286 to 1,510. That seems like an awfully wide range to me. Anybody understand what these numbers mean? BTW, I'm 44 years old, if that makes a difference in evaluating these numbers.

[luvdadus]

While 313 may be within statistical norms it is suspiciously low. If I had a man with erectile problems and a low normal result I would treat him with testosterone. This test in particular requires the interpretation of the MD (assuming he knows his ass from a hole in the ground about male hormone issues) not the nurse. If
I were you I'd get the doc to prescribe androgel If he doesn't get it I'd bring the results to an internist or endocrinologist. I don't know what symptoms you were having - presumable ED, depressive symptoms, fatigue, irritability, decresed libido
If you have ANY of these the chances are you are testosterone deficient and need replacement therapy.

[J Meister]

Luvadus,
Thanks for the advice. I just left a message for my physician to call me so that we can discuss my testosterone number.

[dino775]

J

You should PM drgmerlin and ask him what his numbers were he's on that stuff.........................just a thought


dino

[marz]

The only study that was conducted examined the T levels of men in their 60 to 70's. That's where the so-called "Normal Levels" were determined. FWIW I am 26 and I was clocked at ~800 ng/nl, which really isn't that good

[drgmerlin]

Jmeister, your numbers are about where mine were. The range is very wide, and many doctors are content in leaving you in the low end. You don't want to blow the top off the range like the body builders do, but you want to be in the upper half.

Also, you are looking at total testoserone and apparently, free test. is the better indicator. My MD doesn't know anything about it. There is a saliva test that measures free test and other important hormones that i am thinking about getting on my own.

I have a very good article about this that i saved as a word document. If a moderator can tell me how to attach this document or get it on this board, it goes in to great detail and came from a non-commercial site. This article talks a lot about how "low normal" is not the best and why. This article show what is considered normal and what is optimal for good male health. It indicates that the range should be 600-1000 for best health.

Luvdadus is right, ask your doctor to give you a try on Androgel. It's clean, easy,and works. I used to take injections, but you get highs and lows. I have discovered that sometimes i have to tell my doc. what i want to do, rather than waiting for him to suggest something. When i showed him the article about hormone replacement, he asked if he could have a copy of it.

I have posted the article over in members only.

[2in2002]

A couple of questions. Can you just go in and ask your doctor for a testosterone test, or do you need a reason? Also, if your doctor doesn't know about the other test, how do you go about getting the free test done? Thanks :)

[1 quest]

Last year I was on interferon injections for Hep. C. This treatment brought on a lot of chemical indused depression which has taken me about a year to overcome with help of some medications. I thought that the chemo might have lowered my testosterone level but when my doctor tested it it came in at the low 300s which he said was normal. My libido is way down and I still don't feel right, and now after reading some of the things said on this forum I realize that it really could be increased with the right meds. I also read on the Androgel sight that chemo can bring your testosterone level way down. I'm going to check it out with a new doctor I'm going to see to test me again and help me out.

[luvdadus]

I think that it is good to keep in mind that the ranges quoted as "normal" is a statistical norm calculated for a population not an individual. Person A might function normally with a level of 400 wheras person B with a level of 500 may actually be hormone deficient. This has to do with different individual's tissues having differing responsivity to the hormone. In my opinion male hormone defiency is an under diagnosed and undertreated condition. These poor men are called "depressed" and lazy assholes and considered poor in bed for years till (if they are lucky enough) they get a doctor that knows to order the test and then knows that a low normal level in a patient with symptoms is not normal.

[drgmerlin]

Guys, most doctors don't specialize in this area, and understandably don't know much about it. I just told my doctor i wanted my level tested. He did it. I told him i wanted to try Androgel based on what i read in that article that is now posted over in "Members Only". Luvdadus, check out the technical part of it and the medical references/studies it includes. I wish i still had the link to that site. Maybe i can find it.

Tell your doctor that you don't feel strong, your erections are weaker, and your sex drive is lessening. Those are very good reasons to do it. I was surprised to see the long list of other benefits from having your level in the "upper normal" range.

I work out everyday. A few years ago i found myself not getting any stronger, my muscles wouldn't pump up like they did when i was younger. In fact i found that i was getting weaker.

When i started all this, my pharmasist (who is a personal friend close to my age) told me that all men over 40 could probably do with a little testosterone boost. He then smiled in a way that i figured he is on it too.

I think if you approach your MD in a "i want to try this" method, he should not take offense, and hopefully will let you try it out.

[drgmerlin]

Here is a lot of info about hormone therapy. They keep expressing the importance of "free testosterone" and levels of estrogen and others. My doc does not have access to that type of test. I can get them through my pharmasist or via the internet, which i intend to do.

http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-130c.shtml
http://www.renewyouth.com/malehormonemodulationtherapy.shtml

[luvdadus]

As an internist, I wouldn't waste the patients money on a lot of tests in this setting just to prove a point. If he were on the low end and has any of the symptoms I listed above, I'd just treat him and observe.

[J Meister]

Had a telephone discussion with my doctor regarding testosterone level of 313. He said that he feels that this is within the normal range and does not recommend testoterone supplementation (apparently the conservative approach). He said to just continue to use Viagra for erectile dysfunction. I am still studying the issue. Some good points were made by drgmerlin with regard to the free testosterone test. I'm going to have to look into that as well.

luvadus & drgmerlin,
The only symptoms I have noted have been decreased libido (but then years of denial could do this also!) and the erectile disfunction issue. I feel physically strong and don't have any of the other symptoms you mentioned. I'm not a bodybuilder so I'm not aware of any effects there. I feel that I need to study this out further. I think that hormone therapy is one of those medical controversies that have widely varying opinions and the potential for quackery. I'm fairly conservative when it comes to my health and am leery of anything where the cure and its side effects are worse than the disease. That being said, I'll continue to study and evaluate where I want to go with this. Thanks for your advice and help on this issue.

[1 quest]

I went to my doctor yesterday, and was ready to lay this big spill on him about all the research that I have done on low normal and, and high normal testosterone levels. I even had some information for testing, and guidelines for treating that I had printed off. After I told him that I was tested about a year ago, and my levels were in the low 300s, and that I would like to try some therapy he said fine. He had the nurse give me a shot, in the hip, and than gave me a scrip for Androgel. He said if my problems were because of low testosterone, that I would notice a big difference in about a week. He also said that the shot would be good for 30 days, and then I could start the Androgel after that. I also asked him about HGH injections, and he said something like "why mess around with that when we are going directly to the source". Anyways I hope it helps my libido, and my over all drive for life that has been knocked down since the interferon treatments.

quest

[ChuckR]

Sorry if this has been covered before, J Meister. I'm new here, and saw this thread, and just wanted to suggest that you get "The Testosterone Syndrome" by Eugene Shippen from your library. It's basically about hormone therapy for men, and it turns out that there's more to it than just getting a testosterone supplement. There is also the question of estrogen levels, which you may not even have been tested for.

I'm looking at this same issue, and have run up against a brick wall with my doctor. He says I should just accept that I'm no longer a kid. I say I need a new doctor. You may need one too. But I suspect it's gonna be hard to find one that even knows what this is all about. Unless you are in Reading, PA where Shippen lives.

Another question is whether the saliva tests you see on the net are any good. If they are valid, it would be a relatively inexpensive way to follow how you respond to treatment.

Anyway, it just looked like your doctor is the same as mine, and I wanted you to know that your testosterone level may in fact be substantially low, depending also on your estrogen level, at least according to Shippen, and that you might want to consider finding a doctor who knows more about this.

I'm pretty conservative too, but I plan to follow though with it, at least to the point of getting a full hormone test panel. Then we'll see.

Good luck.

Originally posted by J Meister
Had a telephone discussion with my doctor regarding testosterone level of 313. He said that he feels that this is within the normal range and does not recommend testoterone supplementation (apparently the conservative approach). He said to just continue to use Viagra for erectile dysfunction. I am still studying the issue. Some good points were made by drgmerlin with regard to the free testosterone test. I'm going to have to look into that as well.

luvadus & drgmerlin,
The only symptoms I have noted have been decreased libido (but then years of denial could do this also!) and the erectile disfunction issue. I feel physically strong and don't have any of the other symptoms you mentioned. I'm not a bodybuilder so I'm not aware of any effects there. I feel that I need to study this out further. I think that hormone therapy is one of those medical controversies that have widely varying opinions and the potential for quackery. I'm fairly conservative when it comes to my health and am leery of anything where the cure and its side effects are worse than the disease. That being said, I'll continue to study and evaluate where I want to go with this. Thanks for your advice and help on this issue.

[dumore6]

Iquest.




what was the cost of the injection and andro ? Also. what does the testostrone test cost? I wonder if medicare would cover it. Anyone know?
thanks.

dumore6

[1 quest]

My insurance picked up the tab on the test and the injection. The doctor gave me a free coupon for the first androgel. After that it is $178.00 a month.

quest

[dumore6]

WOW!! thats pretty steep. The only way I could handle that is if Medicare would cover it. I have supplemental insurance but it only pays what medicare doesn't, and only what is a medocare authorized treatment. Maybe I'll check it out. I seriously doubt medicare would cover it.
Thanks alot.

dumore6

[drgmerlin]

Yep, the articles that i quoted earlier indicate that many doctors assume that as a guy ages it ok for his test. level to decline to the ass end of the scale (300 is on the bottom). Read those articles and they will give info on all the factors, benefits and concerns of hormone therapy.

I would think that if you have decent health insurance, it would pay for the test and treatment minus your co-pay or deductible. My office call including the test was $20 and the RX for Androgel costs me a $20 co-pay.

The first reason i went in for the test was declining sex drive, erections, and general strength. The last time i was at the doctor's office, i asked for a test that would tell us free testosterone which is supposed to be the better indicator. Mine was in the top 1/3.

I am grateful that i was able to get this treatment. It is a big factor in the wonderful sex life i now have. It's better than when i was twenty.

[iowa]

What did the Dr. give you in the shot? Did he tell you?

[drgmerlin]

The shot was pure injectable testosterone. Before androgel, i took those shots every month for a year or so. Problem with the injections is that you have a high and low condition-very high right after the injection, and running on empty toward the end of the month.

Androgel is much better because you are getting a small dose every day. His doctor gave him that shot to quickly get him up into the normal range.

When i started my level was about 300. It is around 800 now.

[J Meister]

Haven't done much with this since October other than take herbal supplements that may or may not raise testosterone levels. My insurance denied the claim for the testosterone test and I have to pay $90 out of my own pocket for the test I had in October. It appears that if I want to do something about this it will be my responsibility to pay for it.

[pit_5822]

Hi JM,

i personally do not belive much in drugs and there are alternatives to them, you might like to consider. On thunders there was a tread about a cock ring having components of zinc and copper, which produce a king of alectrical stimulation, and having the effect of raising the testosterone level. Just my 2 cents.

Cheers
Pit

[VegetaGD]

You guys should really look into natural methods of test alteration before you try prescriptions. Tongkat Ali, Tribulus, Avena Sativa, Chrysin are all herbs that I have taken with much sucess to improve test and thus strength and sex drive. Tongkat ali is VERY strong and I urge you to take it slowly and build up because the sudden increase in test is mind-boggling. Tribulus and avena sativa work well together because one boosts test and the other frees bound test. Chrysin blocks the conversion of test to est which is very beneficial.

[stocktrader8]

I have been taking Tongkat Ali at 1g per day and it does increase my sex drive. What is your current dose, would like to increase mine.

[VegetaGD]

I don't know what you are taking. What I mean by this is that you could be taking a extract which is more potent than just pure TA powder. But if you are taking pure powder, 5 to 10 grams a day is what I would reccomned. 5grams being if your more looking for sexual results and closer to 10 if you want both sexual results and mass building. if your only taking 1 gram, if you bump to 5 your dick will explode with hardness and desire, no joke

[stocktrader8]

Thanks for the info, have been taking the powder form and will try to increase the amount 500mg at a time. Has the T-increase helped you PEing.

[hobby]

Guys, the newsgroup alt.support.impotence is populated with people familiar with hormone levels, methods of adjusting them, etc. Check it out. If you don't know how to access Usenet through your ISP, you can use Google's newsgroup interface/archive. Go here (http://www.google.com/), and click on groups. That'll get you started.

[ChuckR]

I've been looking at the saliva tests available through the net. The lab names I've seen are Pharmasan and ZRT, but they sell through distributors. Has anybody tried those tests?

It seems to me that you could treat yourself at least as to estrogen levels, which could make you feel bad even if testosterone was ok. The things you treat it with appear to be mostly over-the-counter stuff. Even plain old zinc.

But testosterone would be something else. You could do your own tests on free testosterone, but couldn't get the drug. Unless it's available "internationally", which I doubt. Of course, some of the herbs mentioned earlier might work.

The saliva tests appear to cost $30-40 each.

[Jambaz]

I'm also taking the tongkat ali powder. I'm taking 2- 3 grams a day.

It has increased my well-being and energy level. I'm also a little bit hornier i guess and my penis and balls seem fuller.

I would also like to use it for bodybuilding but the bottle says not to exceed 6 grams a day.
Are you sure that 10 grams a day would be safe?

[poonja]

I am currently taking androgel. I began with 5 mg and it didn't raise my T levels very much. I have been on 7.5 mg for about three weeks and it feels as if it has had some effect but I have not been tested. I am intriqued by the reports of the effects of tongkat ali. Would it have a positive/cumulative effect on a person also on androgel? Where is the best/inexpensive source of T.A.